Hakeem would *definitely* average 25 to 27 ppg in today's NBA

Here's the more important point: Hakeem would probably have dominated every era, but what about the centers pundits traditionally place above him? You think Wilt could avg 50 in this league? You think Russell could win 11 championships? Kareem have the scoring title?

The only one I will concede is Kareem. Players today are much much more athletic than they used to, but Kareem flat out had moves to beat anyone. You don't block the sky hook.

But Wilt and Russell? They played in an era of unathletic midgets, relatively speaking. They never had to compare themselves to velociraptors like KG and Bosh, never found themselves shorter than guys like Yao and Dwight, hell they never even got to face players of EQUAL height like Gasol or Duncan or Amare. That's why I hate it when people bring up Wilt and Russell as a given when it comes to the "Best Center of All Time" debate. To me it's 1. Kareem, 2. Hakeem, 3. Shaq, and the rest of the best can fight for scraps down below.

 

We've had this argument many times in GARM, so I won't say anything other than I think you are wrong. They were great then and would be great today. So would Dream.

 

He would probably be labeled a PF today. It's more fashionable since Duncan called himself a PF.

 

I have to respectfully disagree here. Wilt Chamberlain, by all accounts, was a freak of nature who could do whatever he wished on a basketball court. He lead the league in assists after he was called out for allegedly not distributing enough. Players from his era maintain he could have scored far more than he actually did. Magic Johnson proclaimed that an 50 year old Wilt dominated NBA players in practice. Wilt, like Jim Brown, is one of the few players who (in their prime) could play in any era, anywhere, and still dominate their respective sport.

Bill Russell would still be the dominant defensive stopper of the day, because he understood rebounding angles, blocked shot approaches, and how to dominate the paint. He wouldn't be an offensive powerhouse, but then again he never was to begin with.

I agree with Kareem, because the sky hook was a devastating weapon. You're not going to front that shot out of existence, and Kareem could hit that shot from 20ft in.

Hakeem actually might take a bit of a hit in today's era. Like DD said, the Sonics (illegally) fronted Dream for years, and Dream had a hard time with it. Combine that with the centers today too slow to bite on Hakeem's fakes ala Mark Eaton (Big Z, Pryzbilla), and Hakeem might take a small hit. He'd definitely dominate, but not in 30/15 fashion. Probably 22/12/4 as he did in his prime, but he'd have to work harder through more fronting to get that.

 

Olajuwon would get to the line more simply because he could face up from 18 feet and drive past defenders. Don't forget that the famous "Robinson bamboozled" move began 18 feet away on the baseline. That is, IF the officiating was REALLY based on perimeter fouls and not wing player fouls(why is it a hand check when Wade or Anthony does it but not Dream?) out on the perimeter.


Seattle was like having the Celtics defensive scheme now coupled with the individual prowess of Ron Artest, Bruce Bowen, and Kevin Garnett.

 

Here are Hakeem's playoff numbers from 92-93, the year that Rockets met Sonics in a seven game series.

25.7 points, 14.0 rebounds, 4.8 assists, 1.8 steals, 4.9 blocks, 52% FG, 83% FT.

Hakeem did not struggle against the Sonics because of fronting defense like people here are claiming here. In the playoff series before 95-96, Hakeem got his monstrous numbers as you can see above. Sonics were just a bad matchup for them and so Rockets had problem with them.

George Karl's strategy after this was not to simply front Hakeem. Hakeem was athletic and had great hands, so to think that fronting him would stop him is silly. Suns, Jazz, Knicks, they all tried this but failed. What Karl did was send 3 guys on Hakeem as soon as Rockets brought up the ball and threw it to Hakeem. Essentially he was cutting off all the passing lanes using triple teams and he was forcing Hakeem to throw out the ball to the outside shooters early in the clock and daring them to shoot. Rockets were somewhat prone to running up the clock and this did not work well with them. Instead of taking the open shot with 15 seconds or more on the shot clock, Kenny Smith and others kept throwing ball back to Hakeem and the triple team, and sometimes quadruple team would come back. Considering that the Rockets did not have a consistent alternate threat, this strategy worked very well for Karl. This is why Barkley was brought in. To hurt the Sonics when they double and triple teamed Hakeem from the other end of the post.

 

The centers today are mostly power forwards, not centers. The reason the big centers bothered Dream wasn't as much that they were big it's that they were allowed to beat him up. The rules today wouldn't allow centers to rough up Hakeem the way people tried to do in the past. Hakeem in today's league would basically be a competition of athleticism and skill level so I totally disagree that he'd take a hit in this era. If anything, the past showed that any time Hakeem went up against someone with somewhat comparable athleticism and skill level (Ewing, Robinson, etc.) that he dominated them. And Ewing and Robinson were *real* centers, not power forwards in disguise. I think Hakeem would fully dominate the likes of Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, and Dwight Howard. I know he would destroy the Carlos Boozers of the league. They're not big enough, they're not quick enough, they're not skilled enough, and they're not physical enough to stop someone as talented as Hakeem.

BTW, that Sonics defense would take any post player out of the game. They basically triple teamed Hakeem as the ball was being passed to him. Our problem against Seattle wasn't their defense on Hakeem, it was not having another player that was good enough to do anything about it.

 

I took a look at those numbers, and those are from the entire playoffs. I did some quick math on the Sonics series that year from basketball-reference.com, and Hakeem was 23/13 for that series (I haven't worked out the rest of the series averages yet). The numbers for the most part support your point that Hakeem still got his, but IMO the point still stands that Dream had to work much harder to achieve the same level of performance. He had a 14 point Game 6 that series, and had and 8/22 (36.4 FG%) in Game 1 of the series. The 95-96 series looks much the same. Now I agree with the breakdown of the Sonics defense you describe, but I still feel that Hakeem had to struggle to get what he got, because of that.

 

Well written, just what I was going to write. Hakeem himself never had any problems against the Sonics, he had some of his most impressive performance's vs the Sonics. Don't get fooled by the losses vs the Sonics, If you go to "basketball-reference" Hakeem's stats tell the true story, he put just as good numbers vs the Sonics and their fronting-zone defense as any other team he faced. Hakeem didn't have problems with teams fronting him in his prime, I still remember when the Knicks in the 94 finals tried to play smart in the first game by fronting Hakeem and he got many easy dunks and just dominated them and he faced a great defensive team and a great defensive player in Patrick Ewing. If Hakeem had any major problems with teams fronting him the great defensive team, New York wouldn't have stopped fronting him after one game...

 

I agree with your point about most centers being hyped up PFs today. I could extend that argument and say that Hakeem might play the 4 vice the 5 today as well. Hakeem played the 4 to start beside Ralph Sampson, but the trade moved him to the 5. TD came in the league the same way, but stayed at the 4 because of David Robinson. But either place you put him, Dream still does well. However, most of the physicality left in the league still takes place down low. Shaq and Yao get the hell beat out of them in the low blocks; you can see where many centers/power forwards still conduct serious banging. I concur on Dream's athleticism - the only person remotely close today that I can think of is Kevin Garnett.

 

He had to work harder to get his numbers because of constant double and triple team, not because of fronting defense, which was implied earlier. It's safe to say anyone's number would take a hit if they saw those kind of coverage thru out the game. I have not seen that kind of defense played on another post player.

 

ZBoy and CometsWin nailed it. Somewhere along the way there's been some revisionist history stating that Hakeem was shut down or performed poorly in this series. The problem wasn't Hakeem being shut down, it was getting him the ball. He got his, but most of the time they were so busy trying to get him the ball, there was nobody else willing to get theirs. And the Sonics "rotated well enough" (*ahem*) to deny Hakeem the ball enough that he didn't go off for 40 on them every game. Hakeem only had one bad shooting game that entire series, and even in that game, he dominated the boards.

As for what Hakeem would do nowadays - he'd still dominate. He completely adjusted his game to fit the situation back then, so why wouldn't he be able to do it now? He didn't want to bang with 280-300 pounders like Mark Eaton and James Donaldson back then, so he took his game out to 15-18 feet. Against the Chris Bosh's of the league, he'd just go back down low and work them over in the post. The Sonics and every other team in the league had defenses geared to either denying him the ball or double and triple-teaming him back then and he'd still get his 20-25 ppg.

 

Actually Hakeem was the center most of the time because Ralph couldn't/didn't want to play with his back to the basket whereas Hakeem was a beast in the paint. Ralph wanted to face up and be a guard and shoot jumpers.

 

Actually Ralph was the 4 when Olajuwon came into the league. Ralph liked to be out on the perimeter whereas Olajuwon's game hadn't quite evolved to hitting that 15-18 footer with the consistency he'd have later in his career.

I think Shaq and Yao would much rather play in this league than the one with Laimbeer, Mahorn, Oakley, Rodman, Eaton, McHale, Maurice Lucas, etc. They basically brought in the flagrant foul because of these guys. Yao would literally have to get into a fist fight on the court to get the respect of some of these guys because they would try to walk all over him.

 

Hakeem would be like MvP,
DUDE with just his speed and athletic ability at his height, would be enough to beat most nba center in the league right now.

Hakeem is one of a kind.

 

Dream pushed Ralph to the 4 spot and out of his natural position as center, the position he played in college while garnering three College Player of the Year awards. Bill Walton is the only other player to match Sampson's feat. It wasn't how Ralph played, although he certainly was unique as a center, but rather just how good Akeem was that caused Sampson to change positions.

 

I stand corrected. I wasn't around for that personally, but that's what I had picked up. Thanks for the correction!

 

I'm just one of the crowd doing it!

 

Still can. As long as the player being defended is Yao or Shaq.