Hakeem ranked lower than Shaq,Wilt, Russell and Kareem

By numbers?

Malone averaged over 25 points a game for 11 straight season (peeking at 29 a game), Dirk has done it 4 times (peeking at 26.5). Malone shot over .500 from the field 11 times, Dirk has done it twice. Malone didn't have range like Dirk but he was a much better scorer. And if we're talking total offensive numbers, he also averaged more assists his whole career than Dirk.

 

I think responses like this are really unintelligent. You cannot compare generations, because, as humans, we will always improve. It's all relative. You need to see how they compared to the best competition at that time, as this is the only quantifiable bench mark. In 50 years whoever the top C is then - people will say he would crush the dream - that's how time works. You could probably say too that Jeff Teague is more skilled than Bob Cousy too, doesn't mean he's a greater player.

 

Hakeem
Dirk
Bird
Jordan
Stockton

$14

 

Dirk vs. Malone?

Which era are we talking about?

Because if we are playing with rules from the 1990's, Dirk isn't going to make it the season.... Malone was an extremely physical and dirty player. He would just bust Dirk in the face and that would be that....

Rules now? Well as good as Malone was, I would take Dirk.... but it would be closer than people think... Malone was a classic PF and Dirk is a new era 4.

 

But you can only judge these cross-generation players on what they did against the competition they faced.

Read this post from earlier in the thread. Great take from photojoe.

 

Stockton
Jordan
Lebron
Nowitzski
Hakeem

 

This the no brainer lineup.

 

Anyone putting a Jazz player on their roster should be banned for life on here.

 

PG: Stockton - $2
SG: Jordan - $5
SF: LeBron - $5
PF: Garnett - $1
C: Hakeem - $1

-I don't see a dramatic difference between the PFs. Give me Garnett for $1.
-Hakeem for $1 was easy.
-Saving on the front court allows me to add the two best players of all-time....Jordan and LeBron.
-Again, not a huge difference for the PGs. Give me all-time assists leader Stockton.

 

It's really disappointing that even long time Rocket fans don't realize just how good Hakeem was. He was better than Wilt and Russell and a better overall player than Kareem.

Most casual fans rate individual players on team based accolades like rings or resume and not actual ability. It's an easy way to judge without actually doing the work of research.

Wilt and Russell played lesser competition had more team support and won with stacked teams in shorter, much easier playoff formats.

Watch film.

Hakeem is more skilled and a better two way player than Wilt or Russell. Hakeem improved in the playoffs and was mentally stronger than Wilt.

Hakeem was much much better defensive player than Kareem. And on par with him offensively over their careers in the playoffs. He was mentally stronger than Kareem as well.

Most agree he was better than Shaq so I'll ignore that for now.

 

Kevin McHale got snubbed.

So, who is your best 5 to be selected outside of everyone in history other than the guys listed here?

Some names that came to mind:

PG: Chris Paul, Gary Payton
SG: Joe Dumars, Reggie Miller
SF: Elgin Baylor
PF: Kevin McHale
C: David Robinson

 

Malone is the 2nd leading scorer in the history of the NBA.

19 Seasons, 25 pts/game, 51.6 FG%, 3.6 Ast/game
Averaged over 25 pts/game in 12 different seasons
(27.7 , 29.1 , 31 , 29 , 28 , 27 , 25.2 , 26.7 , 25.7 , 27.4 , 27.8 , 25.2)
Career PER of 23.9
Career eFG% 51.8


Nowitzki

16 Seasons 22.5 pts/game, 47.6 FG%, 2.6 Ast/game
Averaged over 25 pts/game in 5 seasons ( 25.1 , 26.1 , 26.6 , 25.9 , 25)
Career PER of 23.5
Career eFG% 51.4%

So basically Malone scored more over a longer period of time with a slight edge in efficiency and was a better passer. Malone posted 9 seasons with a higher ppg than Dirk's career best ppg (26.6).

Now defensively, it's not even close. Nowitzki is at best an average to below average defender whie Malone was elite defensively ( 3 First team All-Defensive teams).

 

If we only compare guys on the competition they faced George Mikan is the GOAT center over Russell, Wilt, Kareem everyone.

Whenever you put guys over other guys in rankings you're cross comparing them. So might as well go in depth to do it imo.

 

Circumventing the rules, but I would put together a team of

PG: Hakeem
SG: Hakeem
SF: Hakeem
PF: Hakeem
C: Hakeem

$5 Total

$10 leftover to spend on 10 bench Hakeems :grin:

 

I'm sorry, but Russell doesn't belong in the same category as Hakeem, Shaq, Kareem. I understand he's a legend and won 11 rings. But the league's make up was 100% different than it is now. Him (and Wilt) were giants among boys back then. If you watch old clips of Wilt & Russell, you'll see they just basically jumped over littler guys. No legitimate drop steps, no turn around jumpers, no jump hooks with either hand. No legit post moves, just back up and jump over guys. Hakeem, Kareem and Shaq were just timeless players that NOBODY could hold from any era. Could you imagine Shaq playin in the 60's? He'd average better numbers than Wilt easily

 

Four of the centers should be $3.25. Shaq should be $2.00.

 

Cool question I think I'd go with

PG: Nash (Even though I love Cousy, I've seen Nash play and the passing as well as dead-eye shooting would be perfect for a star studded team)

SG: Gervin (Got to give it to the Iceman, even though I probably need a better defensive player - maybe someone like an Earl Monroe, but how can you go past the silky smooth skills of Gervin)

SF: Hondo (This one was easy, I love Baylor, but I need some defense and Havlicek can bring it! 8x all-defensive team, clutch and a good scorer)

PF: Big E (This is a hard one, a toss up between Elvin Hayes and Bob Pettit in my mind. Mchale is a tier below these guys, imo. Pettit dominated, but so did Hayes. I think the Big E had better defense, so I gave him the nod.)

C: MOSES! (Easiest choice, I know a lot of people would probably put him as a PF, but he's a center...come on!)

 

No one can deny that Hakeem was an amazing player. True- watch the film on him. Hakeem could just move in a way that was truly unique for a guy his size. All of his post moves were so fluid and dynamic. That is what stands out the most to me about Hakeem. I cannot think of any other player that moved in the same way that he did or made post moves look so fluid and almost effortless.

The argument always goes that players who played a long time ago played against weaker competition. People say that if a player from a long time ago played today, they wouldn't be able to do what they did. Or if a player from now played back then, they would dominate in a similar way. That might be true, it might not. Who knows?

How is it Wilt's fault or Russell's fault that they played against weaker competition? All of the competition that they faced was around at the same time, with the same emphasis on sports and athletics. Yet they still dominated. So in my opinion, the only thing that you can judge is how dominate they were against the competition that they faced.

In case the stats that I posted earlier weren't enough, here's some more:

Wilt has the two seasons with the highest field goal percentage for the whole season. His highest was 72%...for the season!

He has the most rebounds in a single game with 55!

One season, he was never put on the bench for the entire season. He fouled out of one game with 8 minutes left, but besides those 8 minutes, played every other minute of the entire season. For that season, he averaged 45.8 minutes per game because of the games that went into overtime, which means that he averaged more minutes per game than actual minutes that are in a normal NBA game. Which, by the way, also means that Wilt has the record for most minutes played per game in a season.

And if you want to talk about competition, look at Wilt vs Bill Russell. Russell is, even now, considered to be one of the best defensive players of all time.

Wilt and Russell played against each other in 142 games. Out of those games, Wilt scored 50 points or more on him 7 times, including a game when he scored 62. He averaged over 28 points and over 28 rebounds in those 142 games. Against one of the best defensive players ever. Why are we talking about weak competition again?


I will say it again, I love Hakeem. I have been a lifelong Rockets fan, and loved watching Hakeem play. Even now, if I watch his highlights on Youtube I am amazed.

But Wilt is just on another level. Whenever I read his stats, I almost laugh. His numbers are the very definition of video game-esque.

 

I did this a few days ago.. But here's mine

PG Magic Johnson 6'9 $5
SG Michael Jordan 6'6 $5
SF Kevin Durant 6'10? 6'11? $2
PF Kevin Garnett 7'2 $1
C Hakeem Olajuwon 7' $1

Shortest person is Jordan. Excellent chemistry defense and offense. Transition. Etc.

$14 spent

 

I don't think, I jus don't think you're right.

You could say the same thing about Shaq he was a freaking monster compared to the other players. Also, Hakeem and Shaq are relatively recent players when the game continues to change and players get better people will talk about those guys like they talk about Mikan or Cousy.

Imagine X player in previous error is a fallacious type of thinking. We don't have to, because there wasn't a player like that and if there was there is no way they'd be as good as they were without having the other people that came before them. Shaq always says if there's no Wilt there's no me - if there's no Mikan there's no me.

Also, Bill Russell pretty much invented the block shot. He first started jumping to block the other players' shots. His coaches didn't like it, but it was effective. If you invent an entirely new move - you definitely deserve a spot amongst the greats.

Double also - Phil Jackson would take Russell over Jordan. I think his opinion should count for something too.