Wilt obviously physically better even as great an athlete as Hakeem was but I'm not sure if he had it upstairs. For what it's worth Bill Simmons have them ranked in the top 50 in his book like this: 2. Bill Russell 3. Kareem 6.Wilt 10. Hakeem Thats from the original list, I'm pretty sure Kobe and LBJ have moved in to the his top 10 now.
Still better than Hakeem. Why is it difficult to accept that A guy who was way faster, stronger and bulkier while certainly not lacking in the skills department was better than Hakeem? Wilt is No 2 in the GOAT list and should have won way more championships if he was not always frustrated by a stacked Celtics team almost completely made up of HOFs. Wilt owned prime MVP Kareem while a young Hakeem faced a fading KAJ.
Jeez, what's the deal with all the guys falling over themselves to prove they aren't homers and using the super-powerful "Ima just ignore you" argument on people they disagree with? On a Rockets forum? The #1 Center question is Olajuwon vs. Alcindor. Wilt is top 10 and maybe top 5 depending on what you value most in a C.
Wilt was a physical freak, but you can't look at his overall stats when judging him against Dream. You have to look what Wilt did against Russell because that is the only center that was even close to what Dream had to go against. In those games Wilt averaged 28.7 ppg and 28.7 rpg, Russell averaged 14.5ppg and 23.7rpg Factoring pace (average scores during those days were in the 140s), Wilts number were rather normal. I would say Dream would totally abuse Wilt, but I think Wilt is still the best of all time.
By this, I think you mean : "What Wilt averaged against one of the most stacked teams of all time". Russell did not 'stop' Wilt all by himself, it was a team effort and usually resulted in triple teams as Wilt was the go-to guy. And you've got to be very special to average 28.7ppg as the sole focus of the best defense of the 1960s anchored by one of the best defensive center ever.
Comparing primes ... Wilt > Kareem > Dream. All three would be dominant players if they entered today's NBA in their primes.
Clearly the answer is whoever played 50 years ago because we all know that players were just better then.
considering wilt admitted that kareem was the first guy he ever thought he needed help guarding... i'm going kareem. also, if it wasn't for jordan, i think kareem would be remembered as the best ever. 6 rings, 6 regular season MVP's, and 2 final's MVP's. jordan edges him with 6 rings and 5 regular season MVP's, and 6 finals MVP's. the truth is wilt only won 2 rings. and if you were about to argue that those are team awards and shouldn't count for who was the best ever, then i'd say he only won 4 regular season MVP awards. he was dominant, he put up ridiculous stats, but the name of the game is winning. he wasn't the MVP as much as others, and he didn't bring his team to a championship as much as the greatest of all time should've. its hard to rank players, but you can definitely tier them. my short list would look something like this: The Holy Trinity: kareem, russell, wilt (their stats, awards, and records may never be outdone) Tier 1: dream, shaq (dominated everyone around them) Tier 2: the likes of ewing, robinson, mourning, mutombo, walton, moses, parish etc... (should've, would've coudl've)
I think by "most stacked team of all time" you mean "the only team in the NBA at the time that Wilt couldn't beat by himself." Since Wilt and the 60s Celtics were each others' primary competition, you can't use one of them to show that the other was good.
im not denying wilt's athleticism. you can spout off all these physical attributes of wilt, im not contending that wilt is athletic, WHAT IM CONTENDING IS HIS COMPETITION LEVEL WAS PISS POOR IN COMPARISON TO THE COMPETITION HAKEEM FACED. Wilt played in the 1960s. Do you know how different the game was in the 1960s compared to the 80s, 90s, and even today? That was the beginning stages of the nba. Its was the infancy. IT WAS AN ERA OF ONE HANDED DRIBBLERS FFS. All you have to do is look at the game footage. Look at who he was playing against. The early 60s was devoid of big athletic centers. THIS IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE. The game, the rules, its overall players wasnt as developed and refined as they are in modern times. Wilt was not a skilled player but solely relied on his brute physical strength and athleticism. His closet competition was a 6'9 center weighing 240lbs. LOOK AT THE FILM FOOTAGE. Wilt didnt really have any post moves and most of his points were dunks and layups vs physically over matched players. Look at his free throw %. He's a career 51% free throw shooter in the 1960s vs inferior competition. Shooting is an indication of skill. The bulk of Wilts career was the entire decade of the 60s. Like i said before, take any statistics in the 60s with a grain of salt because the rules, the players, the league was in its beginning stages and not refined. Look at the year Wilt averaged 50 per game, the year oscar robertson averaged a triple double, the year bill russell avg 23 boards per game, the year walt bellamy averaged 32 & 19. They all took place in 1962. Offensive goaltending was still legal. Look at all the all time highest rebounding games, the 40,50 rebound games they all happened in the 60s decade. REferees were very liberal about callinng 3 sec. violations on wilt and russell. They just camped out under neath the basket and collected rebounds and points vs physically overmatched players. They wouldnt have such a great advantage if they played in modern times. Wilt would not be Wilt if you put him in the 80s or 90s where he would have to go up against polished big men who could somewhat keep up with him physically like ewing, shaq, olajuwon, mutombo, mourning, robinson. Even all those players w/ the exception of mutombo were armed with a greater skill set offensively than wilt. Wilt shot underhanded free throws for petes sake lmfaoooo. You have to be honest with yourself and look at the game film. Wilt had weak competition physically and was devoid of polished offensive big man skills. You need to stop mythologizing these old school athletes to unreal proportions. Fact of the matter is, Wilt's greatness does not translate over to different eras. He was not skilled enough and only relied on his size and athleticism. He would be a javale mcgee if he played in the nba today. At least with someone like Kareem, he had the sky hook, a skill that would have translated in any time period. 1960s does not compare and cannot compete with modern time.
Most people on this board probably never saw Wilt play. I love Hakeem and think he was one of the greatest centers ever, but Wilt was the greatest basketball player ever.
