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Hakeem not impressed with LeBron

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by TWS1986, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. RHU525

    RHU525 Member

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    Considering I never though Mashburn, Robinson, Coleman, Walker were stars in the first place you are reaching, just start listing the stars now and tell me there aren’t more. I’ll help you.
    Legit No debate stars
    Lebron
    AD
    Giannis
    Curry
    KD
    Kawhi
    Harden
    Westbrook
    CP3
    Luka
    Jokic
    PG
    Jimmy
    Kyrie
    Tatum
    Embid
    Lillard

    Secondary tier stars on par with guys you named
    Klay
    Draymond
    Simmons (young)
    Murray(young)
    Mitchell(young)
    Kemba
    Gobert
    Aldridge
    Porzingis
    Zion (young)
    Trae Young (young)
    KAT
    Booker
    Lowry
    Siakam
    Blake Griffin
    Drummond
    Wall
    Beal

    Other guys with star potential
    Russell
    Oladipo
    Ingram
    Jaylen Brown
    Fox
    SGA
    McCollum
     
  2. bmelo

    bmelo Member

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    Hating on LeBron in 2020.. what does he have to do more? Lol he is greatest of his time with no debate about it
     
  3. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    Both are goats of their respective era.

    Now that's settled.

    I am glad both can't time warp to the other guy's era.

    That'll keep the equilibrium.
     
  4. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    The last times MJ really teamed up with several stars was OG in 92 and Space Jam.

    Lebron's super power is to form superfriend tag teams.
     
    beardsanity713 and Space Ghost like this.
  5. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    Fixed some of those for you.
    Where does this evolution kick in? You named a bunch of soft players who would not have not been stars in the 90's. Lebron is less than 5 years removed from being a 90's guy (2003) & still managing to dominate these 2020 models.

    BTW, go check the numbers on Mashburn, Robinson, Coleman, & Walker. They had some good years.
     
    #45 TEXNIFICENT, Oct 30, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  6. RHU525

    RHU525 Member

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    This crazy talk. All Jordan’s championship teams had Pippen. Top 10 player of his generation. Then he got Rodman easily top 20 player in his generation. Jordan’s teams were stacked only difference is how they became stacked.
     
  7. RHU525

    RHU525 Member

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    Even if you remove all those guys I still named more stars now than you named in the 90s. And you reached with Dirk and Kobe and iverson all guys Lebron played in their primes not Jordan. We haven’t even gotten to the role players which are significantly better.
     
  8. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    Dude your're dreaming. You reached with a bunch of soft players. Hell, your NBA was scared of Draymond playing center until a few years ago. They would have looked at Draymond at center and laughed. I left off

    • Dream,
    • Jordan,
    • Pippen,
    • Malone
    • Stockton
    • David Robinson,
    • Ewing,
    • Payton
    • Barkley
    • Rodman.

    BTW, Dirk (1998), Kobe (1996) and Iverson (1996) were 90's draft choices. Duncan had a Title in (1999).
     
    #48 TEXNIFICENT, Oct 30, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  9. RHU525

    RHU525 Member

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    This is a thread about Jordan versus Lebron. All the guys you named might have played in the 90s but Jordan was retired by then. So if anything those are guys Lebron played against not Jordan. My whole point is Lebron has played tougher teams and nba talent is growing. You naming guys Jordan never played a single playoff game against means nothing.
     
  10. MorningZippo

    MorningZippo Member

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    He didn’t, regardless of how you measure “toughness.”

    You’ll notice that older fans and players that never developed a systemic way of understanding basketball tend to use this and other ill defined terms to defend their positions.

    What is crazy is how Jordan produced. He produced about as well as LeBron, with no 3 point shot. That is insane. It’s probable that Jordan would be better than LBJ if he had played in this era.

    but he didn’t.
     
    csj likes this.
  11. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    Krause did his GM work.

    MJ never teamed up with a team that already had a No 1 guy like DWade.

    Heck, Jordan only changed teams once.
     
  12. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    ALL THE GUYS I NAMED? Look again. BTW, Jordan retired in 1998 & came back as a shell of himself and averaged 20ppg in Washington.
    I’m more so responding to:
    Really?
    I just don’t believe Lebron is playing in a NBA that had more talent in it than Jordan’s did. This NBA is not some Super League.Those stars didn’t win because Jordan’s team was the best. Look I think Jordan is acting like a whiny little broad when it comes to giving credit to Jerry Krause who built an amazing team (2x). But the competition was always there.
     
    #52 TEXNIFICENT, Oct 31, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  13. Outlier

    Outlier Member

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    Rodman was nowhere close to being a top 20 of his generation before he came on the Bulls. Pippen didnt win crap without Jordan nor would he be as good as he was if he didn't have a player like Jordan to constantly go against in practice. Try again. Your LeBron love has blinded you.
     
    TEXNIFICENT likes this.
  14. RHU525

    RHU525 Member

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    Lol, funny thing is you automatically assume I’m a Lebron fan. I feel like I have the most unbiased opinion because I don’t like Lebron and I don’t like MJ either. I’m Rockets fan through and through and neither one of them played for Houston. If anything y’all have a Jordan bias because he is the most popular player of all time.

    These are my guys.
    Hakeem
    Francis
    T-Mac
    Harden


    You said Pippen didn’t win crap as your argument which is funny cuz then no one won anything so are there no other stars? The Bulls without Jordan won 55 games. Tell me that team isn’t stacked? Lebron never left a team that was even close to that. They all went straight to the lottery. Pippen finished top 3 in MVP voting without Jordan. If anything he changed his game to fit Jordan’s skill set and took a back seat when he could have led a team.

    And Rodman was easily a top 20 player. In a league that emphasized defense and the slow pace of play. Rodman’s impact was even greater. He might be the best defender in NBA history and best rebounder. He also won two rings before Jordan. The only thing that hurts Rodman is his off court issues.
     
  15. bloodwings19

    bloodwings19 Member

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    MJ would never flop. Jordan would never allow any of his Finals teams get swept. Lebron's durability is truly GOAT, but no way he is above Jordan.
     
  16. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine
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    Comparing the eras is impossible but if you took 1990 Jordan and put him on the court with 2010 Lebron I have zero doubt that Lebron would give Jordan all kinds of problems with his size and strength. Jordan couldn't guard him and I think Lebron's length would give Jordan problems as well.
     
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  17. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    If someone wants to argue Lebron is the best player ever, and argues intelligently, using stats plus eye test, and is a person that legitimately saw all of basketball from 70s onward....

    then there’s a point where you’d just have to say ... noted, disagree but well argued.

    Because Jordan, Lebron and Kareem can all be argued for the greatest ever with it just coming down to opinion. I’d put Kareem third.

    as for top 2, I’m moving Lebron to #1 myself.

    blasphemy!!!

    He’s a more well rounded player. He can guard all 5 positions better. His longevity is insane. For some reason MJ almost gets elevated more because of his 1.5 years off. Like “the only reason other teams won was because he took time off!!” When the reality is that’s a big black mark. Imagine the **** Lebron would have gotten if he just took last year off instead of playing. MJ took 2 breaks.

    4-6 in Finals isn’t 6-0... but it’s still 10 Finals appearances and 4 wins. Lebrons been in something like 14% of all NBA Finals ever. As the main guy ... not a Robert shorty tag along. With 3 different cities. In both conferences.

    his playoff stats are insane. Yes MJs are as well... but Lebrons really are. The guy hasn’t shot below 34% from three in the playoffs in 4 years for example (and he’s not supposed to be a good three point shooter). This year he had a 124 ortg and 106 drtg in the playoffs. It’s insanely good. MJ has had equally good numbers, too... again, noted.

    Ultimately, to me, it just comes down to longevity. More years, more games, still the top player in the league bar none no questions asked. No breaks.

    but if someone wants to say MJ... ok, hard to argue with that.
     
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  18. roslolian

    roslolian Rockets Only Fan

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    This is a very ignorant viewpoint IMO. The reality is no, most of the people in Jordan's era wouldnt be able to adjust in today's game. The reason is the atheletes today are far more athletic and skilled than the average Joe Schmo back in the 80s. Thiose big plodding big men never left, they just arent good enough to be in the NBA. Look at guys like Hamed Haddadi and a bunch of guys on the fringe or out of the league, thats whats gonna happen to those 80s big men. Its become a very skill based league athleticism based league and we know big men in the 80s werent that athletic cuz MJ dunking every night got everyone creaming. Nique was called the human highlight reel but the stuff he did back then that got everyone jumping for joy is stuff you see in high school and college now. You got scrubs like Danuel House and Carusso coming out with highlight reel dunks, thise guys would be super duper stars back in the day.

    Why was Steve Francis a multi all star while his modern day incarnation Dennis Smith Jr an after thought? Why is Goberts defensive anlytics among the best in league history but people today are debating if he is worth a max contract? The old rules made scoring harder in terms of shooting but it also made scoring easier in terms of skillset cap for guards. All people needed to do is stock on roids and they are good to go, Steve Francis was a multi time allstar all he really knew was drive the ball in and dunk, same with Stephon Marbury and while Iverson wasnt as big and strong as those guys he was extremely fast and solid AF so he can still put his head down and throw the ball in the hoop. I didnt watch a lot of 80s bball but I saw a lot of Stockton and thats one of the best pgs in the 80s. Bruh...Curry would dunk all over Stockton if Stockton got on a time machine and played today. And thats Stockton, the average pg in the 80s prob wont even make the Euroleague today.

    In terms of big men prior to Shaq there wasnt a 3 second rule so big men didnt have to be extremely quick and agile, they can stay in the paint and camp and bang with everyone else and just give hard fouls to anyone they can see. Look at how little impact Mitchell Robinson has today, in the past Ewing brought the Knicks to the NBA Finals nowadays Knicks with Robinson is a lotto team.

    Your mistake is assuming athletes 30-40 yrs ago are just as athletic as athletes today. Thats not the way the world works look at the Olympics man how many times were the records 30-40 yrs ago broken till today? NBA players are human beings just like everyone else you cant tell me all the Olympic records keep getting broken but somehow NBA players peaked in the 80s and degraded since then.

    That's just old man back in the day syndrome talking. Even Hakeem isnt exempt from this. Hell ask Paul Pierce he thinks he is the GOAT cuz according to him his era is the best.
     
  19. roslolian

    roslolian Rockets Only Fan

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    If they played in today's NBA Jordan will have a chance. He has a killer instinct and is the 1on1 best scorer in league history. In fact I would prob bet on MJ's team winning just cuz Lebron was just an ok closer in the 2010s.

    If they played 80s bball Lebron will destroy Jordan. 6'9 Karl Malone with Kobe's athleticism and speed allowed to be physical and handcheck Jordan? Cmon man it aint a contest. People have the assumptiom Lebron is boosted by today'a NBA but in reality him, Giannis and Russ are shackled by it. All 3 are super strong and extremely athletic beasts who can will take the beating and physicality and give back 3x the punishment. Imagine if Lebron and Giannis are allowed to handcheck which perimeter player can score with those guys holding their forearms? All those MJ fans just dont understand physics and think a 6'6 dude can actually outphysical somebody 20 pounds heavier and at least 3 inches taller. And that's "slim" Lebron...in the 80s Lebron would prob roid up and put on even more muscle mass just like everyone else.

    Thats what makes Lebron great, he is the best in today's era where he is actually unfavored.
     
  20. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    While I enjoy talking about the streetball aspect of team basketball, it isn't about 1 vs 1 entirely otherwise Skip to my Lou would have been a good player but he is just a bad player in organised team ball.

    I think Lebron is more useful in passing the ball to his team mates and going to the hole, Jordan was the guy you give the ball to in 3rd and 4th quarters and let him lock down players on the other end as well.

    And Jordan isn't supposed to guard Lebron, in his era there wasn't position-less basketball.
    A 6'6 killing machine would have had problems against elite bigs other than outshooting them 1 on 1.
     

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