I still say that Michael Jordan is the best ever. And dream is the greatest big man ever. ------------------ Never Underestimate the Heart of a Champion
MJ can kiss my ass. Satan Stern, the refs, and better role players are what helped MJ win more championships the Hakeem. If Hakeem had someone like Clyde or Charles (or even that p***y Quitten) he would have more championship then Jordans ass anyday! ------------------
And next your going to say the NBA was staged to make him the greatest ever. Many say that Olajuwon got unfair treatment from refs because they think that he travels on his dream shake. Jordan vs. Olajuwon isn't a good comparison simply because MJ is a 2 and dream a 5. Jordan vs. Drexler, there's an argument Dream vs. Jabbar, there's an argument ------------------ Never Underestimate the Heart of a Champion
I think it is pointless to compare a center and a guard for "who is the greatest" honors, but what the hell. Dream is in the top ten in the following statistical categories: Total Points: #10 (and 20 away from #9) Total Rebounds: #10 Total Blocks: #1 Total Steals: #6 MJ is in the top ten in the following statistical categories: Total Points:#4 Total Steals: #3 Points per Game: #1 (for comparisons sake, Hakeem is #18) I was shocked to learn MJ is not even in the top 29 for total assists. But I guess that would be hard when you're taking all the shots. Who is the most marketable? Jordan Who is my favorite of all time? Dream Who do I take with the #1 pick in 1984? DREAM (Then I trade Ralph to Chicago for MJ) If you must try to figure out who is truly the greatest of all time, I have this to offer: Look at the stats, and you do the math. ------------------ "We got f*cking smashed every day. And then when we came here to Beverly Hills, we had drugs, we had chicks, we had orgies. I thought I'd died and gone to f*cking Rome" ---Ozzy Osbourne, on the early days of Black Sabbath [This message has been edited by Lynus302 (edited March 08, 2001).]
The NBA was soft on Michael. Remember when MJ and Reggie Miller got in a fight? Who got tossed? Should have been both of them but only Miller got tossed along with a $10,000 fine for Miller and MJ received a $5,000 fine. Remember the reports of gambling? Did the NBA do any serious investigating? No but let someone else try it and I bet they would be suspended for a year. Even the freaking commentators say stuff like "when your Michael Jordan your going to get that call" and "only Michael Jordan can get calls like that". I won't lie MJ was and probably still is the NBAs most marketable star but he was a player just like any other player and should have got treated as any other player would have been. Can anybody tell me what Jordan has done that has not been done before. He won 6 championships; SO WHAT!!! Bill Russell won 11! About the only real record he holds in scoring average. Between 1984-1997 Hakeem is arguably the most dominant player in the game. Let's be real Jordan didn't do it by himself he had a future hall of famer in Quitten beside him and an awesome rebounder in Rodman during half of his championships. If Hakeem would have had that extra piece in the backcourt and/or up front he probably would have won 4-5 more including that one vs. Boston. ChenZhen I'm not bias these are just the facts, MJ was over-commercialized and over-rated that is what made him known as the greatest. Don't get me wrong he was great but he just wasn't as spectacular as made out to be. Hakeem was the exact opposite, under-rated and not receiving earned respect. ------------------ Arkansas' Biggest Rocket Fan!
You guys are awesome. Funny how everyone bashes pippen by saying he would have been worthless if he didn´t have Jordan by his side, and at the same time use the fact that Jordan had Pippen as a sidekick to bash Jordan... ridiculous. it can´t go both ways. Either Jordan was so DAMN GOOD that he carried entire Bulls teams and an above average role player in pippen on his back (my take) or Jordan only got those rings because he had one of the 50 greatest players of all time as his sidekick. nuff´said. ------------------ The Dream lives on! Honor spoke louder! Long live Hakeem! [This message has been edited by Thanos (edited March 08, 2001).]
Pippen is a good player and that is why Jordan won all those championships. We don't like him because he bashed and bailed on the Rockets after one season and did it so easily too. ------------------ Arkansas' Biggest Rocket Fan!
hahahhahahha! a "good player" that´s ridiculous! SO a "good player" next to an overrated guy who gets all the calls is all it takes to win several championships? you crack me up. ------------------ The Dream lives on! Honor spoke louder! Long live Hakeem!
No but two prime players in their PRIME, which Jordan and Pippen were in, with a few good players and several mediocre ones will win some championships. Like I said Rodman was a big part of those last three championships the Bulls won and he was a good player as was Horace Grant, Ron Harper, Steve Kerr, Paxton, etc. These were all good but not prime players. Then those mediocre ones like Cartwright, Armstrong, Williams, etc. all did their part too. Sure Hakeem played along two prime players in this same format twice (Barkley & Drexler, then Barkley & Pippen) but by this time they were well past their PRIME playing status. Had Hakeem gotten one of these players earlier he probably would have won 4-5 rings. ------------------ Arkansas' Biggest Rocket Fan!
I don't like Pippen cuz he is an overrated, spoiled, temperamental, chair throwing a**hole with an over inflated ego which outstrips his own talent. I don't bash him because he ended up being a sorry Rocket or that he left after a season- I didn't like him on other teams and I didn't like him on ours (though it might have help his image if he had managed to help us win a few more games- hehe ). So I am biased- but there was only 1 Defensive Player of the Year, League MVP, and Finals MVP all within the same season. ------------------
"Remember the reports of gambling? Did the NBA do any serious investigating? No but let someone else try it and I bet they would be suspended for a year. " Conspiracy Theorists note that shortly after the reports of gambling, Jordan "retired" from basketball, only to return a year and a half later. ------------------ Founding Father of the Refs Suck Club
All Time Leaders: Points Player G FG FT PPG PTS 1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1,560 15,837 6,712 24.6 38,387 2. Karl Malone 1,251 11,935 8,484 25.9 32,427 3. Wilt Chamberlain 1,045 12,681 6,057 30.1 31,419 4. Michael Jordan 930 10,962 6,798 31.5 29,277 5. Moses Malone 1,329 9,435 8,531 20.6 27,409 6. Elvin Hayes 1,303 10,976 5,356 21.0 27,313 7. Oscar Robertson 1,040 9,508 7,694 25.7 26,710 8. Dominique Wilkins 1,074 9,963 6,031 24.8 26,668 9. John Havlicek 1,270 10,513 5,369 20.8 26,395 10. Hakeem Olajuwon 1,168 10,498 5,354 22.6 26,375 All Time Leaders: Total Rebounds Player G OFF DEF RPG REB 1. Wilt Chamberlain 1,045 0 0 22.9 23,924 2. Bill Russell 963 0 0 22.5 21,620 3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1,560 2,975 9,394 11.2 17,440 4. Elvin Hayes 1,303 2,778 6,973 12.5 16,279 5. Moses Malone 1,329 6,731 9,481 12.2 16,212 6. Robert Parish 1,611 4,598 10,117 9.1 14,715 7. Nate Thurmond 964 744 1,827 15.0 14,464 8. Walt Bellamy 1,043 264 481 13.7 14,241 9. Wes Unseld 984 2,085 4,974 14.0 13,769 10. Hakeem Olajuwon 1,168 3,916 9,393 11.4 13,309 All Time Leaders: Steals Player G SPG STL 1. John Stockton 1,318 2.24 2,949 2. Maurice Cheeks 1,101 2.10 2,310 3. Michael Jordan 930 2.48 2,306 4. Clyde Drexler 1,086 2.03 2,207 5. Alvin Robertson 779 2.71 2,112 6. Hakeem Olajuwon 1,168 1.78 2,079 All Time Leaders: Blocks Player G AVG BLK 1. Hakeem Olajuwon 1,168 3.19 3,728 2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1,560 2.57 3,189 3. Mark Eaton 875 3.50 3,064 4. Patrick Ewing 1,101 2.57 2,829 5. David Robinson 825 3.21 2,646 6. Dikembe Mutombo 740 3.51 2,597 All Time Leaders: Minutes Played Player G MPG MIN 1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1,560 36.8 57,446 2. Elvin Hayes 1,303 38.4 50,000 3. Wilt Chamberlain 1,045 45.8 47,859 4. Karl Malone 1,251 37.4 46,793 5. John Havlicek 1,270 36.6 46,471 6. Robert Parish 1,611 28.4 45,704 7. Moses Malone 1,329 33.9 45,071 8. Oscar Robertson 1,040 42.2 43,886 9. Hakeem Olajuwon 1,168 36.5 42,595 All Time Leaders: Field Goals Made Player FGA FG% FGM 1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 28,307 .559 15,837 2. Wilt Chamberlain 23,497 .540 12,681 3. Karl Malone 22,798 .524 11,935 4. Elvin Hayes 24,272 .452 10,976 5. Michael Jordan 21,686 .505 10,962 6. Alex English 21,036 .507 10,659 7. John Havlicek 23,930 .439 10,513 8. Hakeem Olajuwon 20,463 .513 10,498 Not bad for a soccer player with just 3 years of college experience. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Hottoddie (edited March 08, 2001).]
either you guys are in denial or smoking crack... he's great, don't get me wrong..but to call him the greatest of all time is kind of a stretch...how many years did Jordan <strong>dominated</strong> the league? and how many years did Olajuwon? When I say domination, I mean to be considered head and shoulders above the superstars...to be called the the greatest in the game at that time...wouldn't you agree? so how many years did Jordan Dominated? I'd say 6-8 years at least...and giving Olajuwon a few years the very most after jordon played baseball... No matter how much you guys try to convince youselves he's the greatest...he'll never be...Take a step back and pull your head out of hakeem's arse for crying out loud... ------------------
Dream is my favorite player of all time and would definitely be in my top 3 centers(perhaps the best),but Jordan DID carry that team.Yes,he needed enough of a supporting cast,but it didn't take anything but role players and two above average players.Ron Harper wasn't the same player he used to be due to injuries and Pippen was as good as he would get.The thing is they complimented MJ with their skills so well.While I think it's a bunch of crap,that some say our banners are tarnished because we didn't break through until Jordan was gone or coming back. ,I give him his due for dominating before and adapting and doing same after.That killer instinct of his is always talked about and it's valid...amazing will to win.That being said,we would have whooped their butts,just like we did during most regular season games in the "Running of the Bulls".They didn't have any answer for our inside game and we had Mad Max who guarded MJ probably better than anyone.Anyway,sorry to digress.If I was starting a team I would start with MJ.. Throw in Dream,Magic,Wilt,Kareem,Russell....Those are my top guys in no particular order. Peace Rockeem..... ------------------ [This message has been edited by hardwood (edited March 08, 2001).]
Some of you pro-Jordan guys are taking this too seriously. Jordan is arguably the greatest player ever, and Dream is prolly in the top 8-10. Most of us were actually joking. However, when it was popular to say that Dream was the better player, one of espn's first magazines showed that Dream contributed more statistically to the Rockets then MJ did to the Bulls. Of course, stats can be misleading. ------------------ "Hey Snoop Dog, I got my bi-yatch to make you some muffins."
I am dead serious when I say Hakeem is the best player ever and I doubt many of the others who said the same were joking at all. Persoanlly I would put Jordan at about 40 alltime which is still pretty good but no where near where everyone else thinks. ------------------ Yititay Bang, Bang, Bang Don't tell nobody That's so siddidy
Yeah, I really wasn't talking seriously at first until I get the feeling people actually do feel that way, that he IS the greatest... top 8-10 sounds right to me ------------------
That's right, in fact me and my friend thought that he did that as a punishment from the NBA but they concealed it as a "retirement" because they didn't want to tarnish the NBAs most marketable player's reputation and have a similar effect that the Pete Rose situation has put on baseball. ------------------ Arkansas' Biggest Rocket Fan!
