I'm in the minority. I'm one of the few that voted that the Rockets should do whatever it takes to keep the Dream in Houston in today's CC.net poll. If you look back at his career, he was easily the greatest Center of his era. He always kept Houston in playoff contention, despite the fact he always had mediocre teammates. In my mind, he was the best player of the 90's (that may anger some of your Jordan lovers). But was he paid the same as the other superstars of the league? Don't get me wrong, he was paid a rediculous amount of money, but he was no where close to the top. Did he get additional income from doing commercials, shoe deals, movies, rap albums, like most other NBA stars? Sorry Dream. He was practically invisible to the TV world. Now many of you would just like for him to retire, like Barkley and Jordan has. But Barkley has a career in nba commentator, and Jordan (correct me if i'm wrong) is still the most highly paid athelete in the world... and he doesn't even play anything! Does Dream have a future in anything else? Sorry Dream... not really. No commentating, no movies, no coaching, no athletic apparel deals in your future. Hakeem is just doing what everyone else in this bbs would do... try to get as much money as he can at the end of his career. He has his future to think about. This is probably it for him... in terms of making a large amount of money. He pretty much has no future in any other field. So I say... do whatever it takes to keep the Dream in Houston. Even if it costs us Mo Taylor or Shandon Anderson. Do you really think Mo or Shandon will take us to the Finals? They're just mere role players... Even if Houston pays him the max for these last two years, he will never reach as high as alot of NBA players have accumulated during his era, despite the Dream being the best. I would rather give money to a guy that took us to a championship, rather than to some guys that will never lead us to a championship. ------------------
Do you really think Mo or Shandon will take us to the Finals? Do you really think Hakeem will take us back to the Finals? He should be paid for what he is now, not what he was 5 years ago. ------------------ I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip that I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.
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Tiger Woods or Micheal Schumacher (spelling) are probably the two highest paid athletes...if you consider golf and racing a sport. ------------------
Dream is making a ton of money on real estate, restaurants and some other business ventures I bet. But yeah I agree with you on some points. The Rockets should still try to sign Dream. I dont wanna lose Maurice and Moochie. And if it comes to keeping Dream or the M&M's I would chose the latter. But we still have to try our best to keep Dream. I dont blame him that much. I bet he is enjoying all this attention. I wish he would hurry up just a little bit. At the end I DEFINITELY think he will sign with the Rockets. ------------------
How do you know if Mo and Shandon don't help us win a championship! Shandon was a key part of the Jazz Eastern Conference championship run. But you want to keep rewarding Dream OVER AND OVER, given up pieces of the future just to relive the past? If that is the case, why not just get rid of Mobley and bring back Drexler! Get rid of Eddie Griffin and bring back Mario Elie! Who needs Francis when we can get Sam Cassell and Kenny Smith back! At some point people are going to stop having to live in the past and build for the future. ------------------ "Instruments are like women: After a while, you want to make love to another." - Nicolas Godin of the musical duo Air
Nice post Dream-team, but I think it is possible to pay Dream well and keep all the important free agents. I think the Rockets are simply being cheapskates with their 4.1 million offer. ------------------ Protrolls.com! Keep the ???? alive! The ZRBucks!
dream_team said: In my mind, he [Hakeem] was the best player of the 90's... But was he paid the same as the other superstars of the league? Don't get me wrong, he was paid a rediculous [sic] amount of money, but he was no where close to the top. Whether Hakeem was the best player of the 90's is obviously up for some debate. In spite of how much I like Hakeem, I would never claim that he was the best player period. But, hey, that's just me. And yes, Hakeem has been paid, and paid well over his career. But are we obligated to pay him more than other players even if he is better than them? No. Just as you are arguing that Hakeem is simply treating this like a business transaction, so should the Rockets. We only need pay him what it takes to keep him here...if that is what we want to do. Have we done that in the past...certainly. In fact, we've probably paid him more than we absolutely had to. dream_team goes on: Did he get additional income from doing commercials, shoe deals, movies, rap albums, like most other NBA stars? Sorry Dream. He was practically invisible to the TV world. Now many of you would just like for him to retire, like Barkley and Jordan has. But Barkley has a career in nba commentator, and Jordan (correct me if i'm wrong) is still the most highly paid athelete in the world... and he doesn't even play anything! Does Dream have a future in anything else? Sorry Dream... not really. No commentating, no movies, no coaching, no athletic apparel deals in your future. I'm sorry, but I fail to understand how that is the fault of the Rockets organization. Nor do I understand why we should compensate Hakeem for his failures off the court financially. If he can't swing the endorsement deals, that is his problem. I feel bad for the guy and all, but endorsements have more to do with personality and "T.V. appeal" than performance on the court. Jordan was simply lucky that he was gifted both on and off the court. Further, we are not obligated to finance Hakeem's retirement. It is his responsibility to plan for the future. If he can't manage his money properly, why should we have to bail him out? Which of you thought that The Beatles were required by virtue of their relationship with Ringo to bail him out of his own, self-inflicted bankruptcy? dream_team finished: Hakeem is just doing what everyone else in this bbs would do... try to get as much money as he can at the end of his career. He has his future to think about. This is probably it for him... in terms of making a large amount of money. He pretty much has no future in any other field. So I say... do whatever it takes to keep the Dream in Houston. Wait...that's the argument? Give Hakeem what he wants simply because he needs the money. I thought the Rockets were a basketball team, not a retirement plan. Hakeem was an incredible player and I am truly happy that he has been a Rocket all of these years. But he is, quite frankly, past his prime. It would be stupid of us to mortgage the future of the team simply to sate Hakeem's ego (I'm sorry, his bank account which is apparently empty). Just like Hakeem, we need to do what is right for the Rockets and, simply, what any other team would do. It's sad to see this type of thing happen, but Joe Montana (arguably the greatest football player of our generation) didn't retire as a Niner. Why? Because it wasn't in the best interests of the team to keep him for a huge salary. The Rockets shouldn't do whatever it takes simply to see Hakeem retire a Rocket. They should offer him what they can, what they think he is worth at this stage of his career and move on. I am at the end of my rope over this whole situation. Two weeks ago I would have said: "I'd hate to see you go." Now it's more like: "Just go." ------------------ "What did you mean when you opened your mouth and let all our secrets out?" [This message has been edited by rox dreamz (edited July 25, 2001).] [This message has been edited by rox dreamz (edited July 25, 2001).]
Joe Joe: I stand corrected. Tiger Woods is the highes paid athlete today. Jordan is #2. Sam Cassell: As a matter of fact, I think the Dream has a better chance of leading Houston to the finals next year than Shandon and Mo. Everyone knows this team lacks an inside presence... and mo is a power forward that averages 5 rebounds and half a block a game and rather play out in the perimeter than in the post. And shandon is a guard that doesn't handle the ball very well and shoots inconsistently. RocksMillenium: Now you're just making my point sound rediculous. That's a weak form of argumentation called "slippery slope". Those players don't mean anywhere close to what Dream means to Houston, and you know that's what I mean. ------------------
1) I agree that Hakeem is just negotiating for the best deal/situation for mimself,and most if not all of us would do the same. 2) I do not agree that that means the Rockets should do "whatever it takes" to keep him. I believe both parties should do what is ultimatley in their own best interest, and while keeping Hakeem does have value, both from a basketball and P.R. standpoint, it might actuallt make the most sense to let him go, if he is asking the Rockets to mortgage their future to keep him. 3) I wholeheartedly agree that Hakeem was the best player of the 90's, and the biggest factor is "the Jordan Rules" under which MJ operated...If Hakeem had had the liscence to do whatever he wanted on 'D', and a free pass to the hoop at the other end, I can only imagine what numbers he could have put up... ------------------
ZRB, you claim that the Rockets are being cheapskates with their lowball 4.1 million, one year offer..... Of course they are. Its a freaking negotiation. One of the basic tactics in negotiation is to offer a lowball offer, then expect a high offer from the competition, and then eventually find middle ground. Granted its not the most touchy feely tactic but negotiations are not always fun. Why would the Rockets walk in and say "Well, we have 16 million in cap room, so we could probably pay you about $6 million, and you're really popular here in town, so.....how much do you want?" They anticipated a counteroffer, but they are dealing with Feagan, who probably instructed Hakeem to go public with his "insulting offer" remarks, and then started the Hakeem Eastern Conference Tour. Feagan plays a more savvy sneaky game. I hate him, but he's good at what he does. ------------------
rox dreamz: The point of my post is just to justify Dream's actions... alot of people on here are calling him sellfish. When in fact, he's just doing what most of us on here would do, try get as much money as he can since this is it for him. ------------------
How long have negotiations been going on now? It is time for the Rockets to raise their offer, and keep Hakeem here for good! ------------------ Protrolls.com! Keep the ???? alive! The ZRBucks!
If they were going to have some sort of miracle season where they made it to the finals, they would need Mo AND Hakeem. And get over this Marc Jackson in 2001, Duncan in 2003 crap. Jackson wants Cato money, and Cato years. And Duncan is too much of a wild card to give reason for the Rockets to "save cap space". Come on, the Magic's "reload for 2000...I mean reload for 2003...I mean reload for <insert next big free agent year here>" strategy sucks for the players and the fans. DO you really want a mediocre team that tries to play average ball with average players in order to hoard cash for possible free agents, or do you want a team that works and grows together to be better and someday contend? ------------------
ZRB, you have a good point there. It almost sounds like the Rockets were expecting a counteroffer but then decided to let Hakeem have his little fun tour around the country before resuming negotiations. For them, it may have been a good thing. Hakeem feels wanted by the masses, and the Rockets know that Hakeem knows he's not getting $10 mil anywhere, ever, and that its probably going to be Toronto, Cleveland, or Houston (with H-town having an edge). It looks like its time for the two teams to roll up their sleeves and get to work. ------------------
dream_team said: "[A]lot of people on here are calling him sellfish. When in fact, he's just doing what most of us on here would do, try get as much money as he can since this is it for him." I completely understand why and what Hakeem is doing. I understand that the whole point is for him to maximize the size of this contract. The fact that I understand it, however, does not make it any less selfish. He is doing what is best for him. That is, by definition, selfish. ZRB said: "How long have negotiations been going on now? It is time for the Rockets to raise their offer, and keep Hakeem here for good!" I disagree...it's time for Hakeem to make a decision. If he can't accept what the Rockets are willing to offer, he should be a man and let us know. The money we are offering him is comparable to what other teams are offering. Therefore, we now know his value in the open market. I am not one to pay a whole lot for sentimentality (although I would have been willing to go a lot higher two weeks ago). My message to Hakeem: "Take the 9.1 and be a team player, or don't. Wait much longer and you might be hearing boos from the homecrowd." ------------------ "What did you mean when you opened your mouth and let all our secrets out?"
If the Rockets used this logic there is no incentive for Hakeem to show any loyalty or be a team player. If you want a good relationship with players it has to go both ways. The idea of giving Hakeem slightly less than what other teams offer, becuase it's the market value, is a good reason why Hakeem may feel unappreciated. It seems like you are willing to treat Hakeem like it's all about only business, but then expect him to show the organization some kind of special consideration out of loyalty. Reward loyalty with loyalty. Hakeem stuck around for years while much lesser quality players made more money. So the Rockets rewarded him by giving him a big salary over the past few years. So far so good. Now all of a sudden they want to go back to ground zero? Why not pay what you can afford to someone who brought this franchise the best years it's had? I don't say give him 10 mil a year, but at least offer 5 - 5.5 million. On a another note, one of the gripes people have about Hakeem is that he wants to be more involved in the offense. Starting with that Knick game when he was more involved in the offense, things seemed to go a lot better. Maybe Hakeem had the right idea, and the people who want him to not be involved in the offense have it wrong. ------------------ [This message has been edited by sleepyfloyd (edited July 25, 2001).]
