Poodle, I'm not trying to be pessimistic, just portryaing my views on some players/signing i don't think are benefical to the Rockets. Have no problem if you think Mo is a solid player, i just think a Power Forward should deliver certain things, which he wouldn't even know In part I agree on Rice and hope he does turn it around (and even said that so that is optimistic) Mooch, good for what he is, but not for 22 million! Cato, so his salary might not be of Reeves or LJ proportions, but still doesn't mean with have to accpet the Rockets management might the right call on giving him what he got, so what if he hadn't been re-signed and left as a free agent, no one would complain. Why can't the managment find some middle ground cause for me all the acquisitions he either been complete duds or complete successes, they just end up cancelling out each other. Smeg
Oh, and this just solidifies my opinion that Hakeem sucks. Why take a stab at the organization for no reason. They had gone their separate ways and parted ways fairly peacefully, yet "Mr. Honorable" goes and does this. Hakeem, you're revolting. Thou doth suck. And as RM95 said, you're a whiny b****.
Geez, some of you guys need to ask yourself if your a Hakeem fan or Rockets fan. Personally, I'm a Rockets fan, first and foremost. Yeah, Dream was one of, if not, the greatest center of all time but he was paid well. How can you say the Rockets weren't loyal to him? Was he loyal to the Rockets? Sure. As long as he was paid the most he could get. Someone tell me when he took a hometown discount. If he ever did, then you can argue he was loyal to Houston. He told the orginization that he was retiring and then changed his mind. And he did this after two or three injury plagued seasons when he was earning a max contract. Right there is his payment for "all he's done for the Rockets". It's time to get over this bs. He's gone. Good luck. Thanks for everything. Yadda yadda yadda. Now just shut up and quit disrespecting the organization that helped you obtain the gross wealth that you've achieved.
Before I wade into this argument, I have to acknowledge that at least part ot the impetus for so doing is that I have an exam tomorrow morning, and need a study break... 1) With regards to Hakeem's statement 'in toto'...My first point is that I always prefer the players I root for to take the high road, and am always a little disappointed when they air their laundry in public...That is no different here, and I wish Hakeem hadn't said what he did. 2) With regards to the timing...I am reading all kinds of " Yeah, sure, it's so great/easy for Dream to kick dirt on us when we're down.." comments, and they are a little absurd, not to mention myopic. First, living in Toronto, I can assure you that, with Hakeem returning to Texas, all kinds of stuff about Hakeem and the Rockets was circulating PRIOR to these comments. It was the obvious topic to discuss, and was even talked about ad naseum during the game by the play-by-play announcers, so the fact that it became a topic a Houston reporter asked him about is in no way surprising, let alone stemming from their current plight. I disagree with his choice, I prefer the high road, as stated, but if he does choose to talk about it, it would be logical that it happens when it's topical, and he surely has no obligation to defer his comments until such time as the Rockets are winning games... 3) With regards to the accuracy of his comments...I would contend that there is significant evidence to support his claim that the Rockets were not making him the priority in fact that they were in public...In support of this is the fact that the Rockets have added these salaries SINCE breaking off negotiations with Hakeem, all of which, as I understand it, exceed the offer they made to their "top priorty"..Moochie, Taylor and Rice...not to mention the fact that Cato's contract far exceeds what Hakeem was offered. Were the Rockets to have ACTUALLY commited to a youth movement, then I would completely support their jetisoning Hakeem, although it would have been best handled by acknowledging that fact rather than making it appear that Fegan was simply demanding too much, especially when Indiana, Toronto, Milwaukee, and Miami all said that those demands were reasonable...However, this "youth movement" included acquiring Glen Rice for more $ than Hakeem was asking for, and directly undermines the credibility of that position. Those of you who keep isolating the Rice situation from the Hakeem saga are being very selective...They were done by the same group of people, and their purported motivations are mutually exclusive... 4) WIth regards to whether or not Hakeem's comments are "classless"...I would agree that the choice to make these comments is NOT the "classy" choice I would have prefered. The comments in and of themselves are not particularly offensive, and may even be accurate. And the decision itself isn't a WRONG one, or a BAD one, it's merely not the BEST one from a "class" point of view, in my opinion. However, it is certainly within his rights, particularly if he feels that he was ill-treated, and especially if he feels he and his departure were misrepresented. And, while many of the posters in here effortlessly claim that anything short of Hakeem's staying mum about the situation proves he's "classless", a lot of these same posters were the same ones blasting him for leaving for the $$...I seem to remember much fun being had with variations of " Hakeem Olawanisthemoney" at the time of his departure...So, as I understand it, when he leaves and it is circulated that his departure was caused by his excessive and unrealisitc demands, he's blasted high and low in here by people equating him to a prostitute, bastardizing his name, and stating that his only loyalty was to the money....No attention is paid to the fact that other franchises WITHOUT the added incentive of loyatyl were finding his demands quite acceptable, no, it's merely Fegan and his money grubbing "OlawannadoisholdtheRocketshostageandpreeventthemfrombuildingafuture" to blame.... And then, when he comes out and says that he really DID want to come here, but that the Rockets didn't really want him back, and this fact is supported by the numbers if you care to look at the $$ given out to lesser players since Hakeem left, do those same people who blasted him for being disloyal say to themselves " Wow! I guess I was wrong, and that he didn't just leave because he has no loyalty" or, maybe not reach a conclusion that they were wrong, but at the very least QUESTION the validity of their previous mockery of him!?!? Nope, now he's a whiner and lacking "class." The fact that the two claims against him are in direct opposition to one another seems not to bother these people a whit....They easily set their version of Hakkem being a money grubber who showed disloyalty alongside the Hakeem who showed no class for b****ing about the Rockets not really wanting him here, and don't even ask themselves the obvious question.... 5) kidrock...re: your argument that this "proves" that Hakeem is A) a jerk , and B) a hypocrite for being a jerk and pretending to be a nice guy... A) People who begin logical theorums based on the foundation that they are right invariably come to the conclusion that they agree with themselves... IF you agree that Hakkem is/was a jerk, than, yes, this proves he's a jerk. However there is, thankfully, a wide margin of interpretation between your opinion and fact.. B) IF you conclude that this proves he's a jerk, AND you conclude that he's pretended to be a nice guy, than, yes, this proves that he's really a jerk and was just pretending to be a nice guy...One side note...i would be interested to see what, exactly, your criteria is for someone who doesn't pretend to be a nice guy...I mean, what should a not-nice guy do to prove that he's not? Does he owe it to the public to take part in a drive-by shooting, or at least get caught in a hotel room with an underage stripper on speed, just so he can claim consistency? How, exactly, does one gp about pretending he's a nice guy? 6) Jeff....while I GREATLY respect your tireless and mostly thankless efforts on behalf of the Rockets, and also happen to agree with you on a lot of topics, I would like to take issue with your definition of a fan....I do NOT agree that a true fan invariably supports the team of his/her choice, without qualification, whenever that team is in conflict with another...To me, a true fan can acknowledge his/her team's mistakes, but then continue to root for said team...In this case, it is possible for a true fan to say, yes, the Rockets handled it poorly, I wish we had done it differently...and move on without showing disloyalty, just like we can watch them lose a game, say that they played poorly, and move on....To analogize, there is a distinction between someone with a particular religious faith, and a zealot or fanatic...I feel that your interpretation of being a fan the equivalent of being a zealot...To clarify, to me a true fan of the Rockets says " Rockets, right or wrong", and can make the distinction...you seem to advocate a position of " The Rockets, right or right!" Wow! Disagreeing with OP one post, then Jeff the next...I'm probably not doing myself any favours here... 7) All in all, I still think that both parties are better off this way, as Hakeem is a short term answer, and the Rockets are looking at long-term questions...I'd feel a whole lot better about this, from the Rox point of view, if we hadn't brought in Rice, but oh, well...And I really wish Hakeem had stayed on the high road, and kept quiet....but while he may not be taking the high road about this, he's still on solid ground with regards to support for his position, and he is certainly NOT taking the low road he's invariably being accused of by some posters in here...
Wow, where to begin? First of all, great article. I agree with just about every word that was written. Nice job Fran. The biggest question in this thread seems to be "why did Hakeem make those comments?" That's easy. The reporter asked, and Hakeem was honest. I see nothing wrong with that. He simply voiced his true feelings on the situation. His comments happened to coincide with the 11 game skid by the Rockets. If he wasn't asked the question until now, why would he have started talking about it sooner? "The first thing I need to say about that is my experience in Houston for all those years cannot be duplicated," Olajuwon said. "I am so grateful for all of that -- to the fans, to the city. That will never change. Houston will always be my home, and it will always be the high point of my basketball career." I love the way everyone ignores this quote. Notice the way he thanks the fans, and the city. Judging by the prevailing attitude on this board, I don't see why Hakeem should feel the need to do that. Most of the fans seem to wish him nothing but the worst of luck as he starts his tenure in Toronto. "They were ready to go in a different direction. They wanted to be young and start over. They wanted me to just go away. I just said that it didn't make sense from a basketball standpoint. From the time I came from Nigeria, through my years in college and with the Rockets, what I've always known is that the center position is. Wouldn't we like to have a center with defensive abilities right now? Do you think Hakeem would have been manhandled by Ilgaskus the other night? The Rockets have always said that they wanted to become a young, run and gun team. Well, they are young, if you forget about Rice, Williams, and Willis. Do they run and gun? Perhaps once a game! The Rockets are still playing offense designed for a big man, and that shows no signs of changing any time soon. Why did they want to get rid of Hakeem again? Because he wanted the ball now and then? Because he took away from their running game? Hakeem is gone now Rockets, why aren't you running? Anyone who denies the importance of the center position is just stupid. "The Rockets organization would say one thing -- what they thought was the right thing -- to the public. But minds were made up all along. How can you refute this? Hakeem probably has a better idea of what goes on behind the scenes than we do. "Rudy, Les, the Rockets pretended to say all the right things for the public. But I know better. They wanted it to look like I was the one being disloyal, that I wanted to go. They know the disloyalty was in their organization. Again, you can't dispute this. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes. What gives the Rockets front office more credibility than Hakeem? You can't prove or disprove the last two quotes. If you were Hakeem, the whole situation would look a lot different than what it looks like to Rudy, Carol, or an outside observer. Put yourself in Hakeem's shoes. "If I was going to play for them, I wanted to contribute. Rudy (Tomjanovich), Les (Alexander), they wanted me to have a farewell tour, play a few minutes at the beginning of the game, wave to the crowd and then sit on the bench. Is there anything wrong with Hakeem wanting to contribute? Is touching the ball every few posessions a lot to ask? There is a lot of evidence to support this quote. The countless games where Rudy chose to keep Hakeem on the bench in favor of Walt (does he need time to develop) or even Bullard seem to back Hakeem up quite well. How many times last season did Hakeem play brilliantly in limited first and third quarter minutes, while opponents ran layup drills in the fourth quarter? When the Rockets finally started used him properly, Hakeem put up spectacular numbers, and the Rockets won. I seem to remember Steve and Hakeem COMBINING to lead the Rockets to a great stretch, rather than Steve deferring to Hakeem. Not once in the last two years has Hakeem complained about not being the focal point. All he wanted to do is contribute, like he did in the second half. Why couldn't the Rockets understand that? Did they forget about the last half of the season? "I love Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley, and I enjoyed playing with them," he said. "We enjoyed playing with each other. I think I had things I could contribute to their games. I could make their jobs easier. They could make my job easier. It only made sense for the old and new to work together." Again, the Rockets were at their best when the three of them worked together, NOT when Hakeem watched Steve and Cuttino hurl up jumpers. It's called teamwork people. That's something the Rockets are lacking this year. "I'm not trying to score 20 points a night," he said. "I don't want to play 48 minutes. The Rockets always tried to make it out that I was the one who would not let go, but they are the ones with the shallow mentality. I thought Hakeem wanted to be the number one option? He seems to be fairly realistic about his abilities here. "Look at the Lakers organization. If one of their franchise players wanted to play, they always accommodated him. If he wanted to move into the front office, they kept him a part of the family And that is absolutely true. Why couldn't the Rockets do that? They kept Calvin Murphy and Rudy, but not Hakeem? Something is wrong with that. "I couldn't be better. I couldn't be happier right now. My family has joined me in Toronto, and it feels good. We have sellout crowds almost every night -- 19,000. How does that compare to a half-empty building? Seems like a perfectly fine statement to me. Why wouldn't Hakeem want to go to a team with good fan support? What's more fun as a player? Playing in front of a huge crowd cheering their heads off, or playing in front of a half empty building where the fans that do show up could care less about the action on the court. From Fran: The Rockets didn't want a 38-year-old Olajuwon. So they brought in a 39-year-old Kevin Willis. The Rockets didn't want Olajuwon's aches and pains that come with age and his high salary. So they picked up Glen Rice with bad feet, no shot and a contract that will keep them hamstrung for three more years. The Rockets didn't want to be trapped into no upside. So they shackled themselves to Kelvin Cato and Moochie Norris. From Hakeem: "I think they have made poor decisions in the past, and they still continue to make them." He didn't say that they never make good decisions. How can you deny that the Rockets have made huge mistakes and continue to make them? Maloney, Cato, Norris, Rice... That was valid criticism of the management. "Everybody is still getting acclimated as a team," said Raptors coach Lenny Wilkens. "We're still growing. What Hakeem gives us is credibility." Hence, their mediocre record. They'll be fine in the playoffs. "Sure, I keep an eye on the Rockets. Houston is home and always will be. I want those young guys to do well. I want Steve to come back and be healthy. I want them at full strength when they come to Toronto next month." Yeah, he's really ripping the Rockets here. Lastly, I find it pathetic that most of you (not all of you) can criticize Hakeem for ripping into the Rockets, when you have bashed him to no end ever since he left. Good luck Hakeem! Thanks for the titles, and all the memories.
See, if you find yourself saying this, you should just stop and think, "Perhaps I'm not right", because agreeing with Fran Blinebury is generally not a sign of being on the right side. Well, I've seen Hakeem get manhandled by Radoslav Nestrovic, so its not out of the realm of possibility, and Ilgauskas is a very good center when healthy, much better than Rado. The Rockets get credibility because they haven't stooped to bashing a former player. Taking potshots like that diminishes your credibilty in my book. He was more involved in Houston than Toronto, except, the early part of alst season, Hakeem wasn't playing like he deserved getting multiple touches a game. Opponents were running lay-up drills on Hakeem as well, the differnce is that Bullard and Walt might actually contribute offensively now and again Hakeem finaly started playing like he deserved playing time in the 4th quarter, primarily, it seems, because he wanted to move on to another team and he wanted to increase his value. First off, Hakeem has complained often about not being involved more in the offense, secondly, perhaps they remember the previous year and a half as well, when Hakeem was a non-factor. So it was ok that he's watching Carter, Williams and Peterson jack up shots? Its called teamwork, and Hakeem is not a significant part of the offense in Toronto. Both Calvin Murphy and Rudy T wanted to remain with the Rockets. The Raptors made only two changes of note. they dumped the worthless Charles Oakely and they added Hakeem. Frankly, neither one of those changes should be enough to have disrupted their offense the way it has. They're playing mediocre ball, that's why they have a mediocre record. Hakeem took numerous potshots at the Rockets, when frankly, there was just no need. Discretion is the better part of valor, at the least, he probably should've given a no comment, this cheap shots at the Rockets was uncalled for, especially since the Rockets have done nothing to deserve it from him.
Some very good posts here guys, including some from a different position than me (ZRB, JAG others). However: There is no question Hakeem would help the Rockets right now. However, Hakeem was offered more over 2 years (10 mill) than Kevin Willis got I believe, and Willis was only offered this after we got stung by the Mo loss, GS last second decision on MJ, and possible swarted on other trade (e.g., Jahidi). The Rockets made the best offer they thought they could in balancing future goals with player over 38. In short, a similar contract was on the table, the 38 year old Hakeem walked away, the 39 year old Wllis didn't. The Rice trade smells bad on most all accounts, save perhaps one. Perhaps the Knicks and Rockets were both in terrible situations, and it was simply the best we could do. Perhaps had we not gotten Shandon his money one way or another, we lose the ability to low-ball FA for future pay days. In the long term, this could be more important that taking on Rice's bad contract, even if he doesn't play another good game. Finally, over the last 15 years the Rockets have been among the top quater of franchises in most any criteria. Despite some mistakes, some one has been batting pretty well in the personelle department over this span. My personal recent beef is there are some good defensive prospects that seemed to go pretty cheap this offseason--especially because of Orlando's mental meltdown in sending out Outlaw for nothing, Heywood for about what we used on Terrence Morris, or we could have used our acquired 2nd round pick on Woods, but oh well, time will tell.
This thread could go on for years and we still probably wouldn't know the whole deal of what happened. I don't know what made Hakeem say what he said and why he said it... So for that reason alone I really can't comment on his approach. The only thing that I can say is this... There are 3 parts to a story.. 1) Hakeem's side 2) The Rocket's side 3) The truth.. And we will never know what #3 is. So before we go hang somebody let's take a step back and really see what's happening.
True. However, that doesn't change the fact Hakeem was offered MORE than Willis is getting yet the article describes Willis on the roster and then goes on that the Rockets didn't make a "real" offer for Hakeem (imply they were only playing with him and really didn't want him). I wonder if Hakeem is the highest paid 38+ year old guy in the league--and even would have been so if he accepted our offer instead of the Raptors.
Why are we even talking about Willis' contract. The Rockets didn't pursue him, until after Olajuwon left.
this post marks the 2nd time that I've posted in the Rockets 2002 forum since july when the traitor left us. this is because I still haven't gotten over my bitterness about it, and until this afternoon, I was able to just find my solace over in the hangout. I can't describe how angry I was reading this article today. without resorting to hyperbole, I can only say that I was flipping off my computer screen and muttering curse words that I couldn't even spit out correctly because I was so mad. why? because I hate seeing my hero make a fool of himself. it was bad enough learning about the "divorce", and now it's just as bad seeing "mom" and "dad" take pot-shots at one another. hakeem's a punk for getting into this stuff, and of course, fran's a b**** to end all b****es. yes, kbm, hakeem is hurt. so what? that doesn't give him a free pass to say any old thing, especially when what he says springs forth from out of his delusional imagination about what the "truth" is. he is so damned proud. yeah, that pride is what made him the player that got us the 2 titles. it's been downhill ever since. I take my only solace from today and the article in seeing that, if hakeem says he is happy and he's so glad that he made his move, he's lying. if he was so happy, he wouldn't feel the need to expose [for the umpteenth time] his wounded ego and pride. you take crap like this, mix it with pro baseball and an assortment of other sporting pecadillos, and you realize: these knuckleheads we idolize and follow and invest our emotions in are really just a bunch of skinflutes. we are all baring witness to the dirty laundry, the drama and the seemy personal underside of professional sports. the whole sorry-ass lot of them should be allowed to dunk but not talk. WHO GIVES A FLYING FRAP ABOUT PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES' FEELINGS?!?!
This thread could go on for years and we still probably wouldn't know the whole deal of what happened. I don't know what made Hakeem say what he said and why he said it... So for that reason alone I really can't comment on his approach. The only thing that I can say is this... There are 3 parts to a story.. 1) Hakeem's side 2) The Rocket's side 3) The truth.. And we will never know what #3 is. So before we go hang somebody let's take a step back and really see what's happening.
To me, jeff, this position is disgraceful. The idea that a player means little more to you than what he can do for your team seems so impersonal. Most people won't even treat a dog with that measure of ingratitude, let alone a human being.
I already said hakeem wasn't perfect. I know he isn't. But consider this, crispee, if you and your wife of 15 years got a divorce, would you have all rosy things to say about her to your friends - no! You would bad mouth her every chance you got, especially if the divorce wasn't on good terms. So why would you expect hakeem to be different?
Give me a break! I don't even know the guy. How could I be treating him with ingratitude? I said I was glad we won the championships and there is no doubt he is the primary reason. Who the hell are you to tell me what opinion I should have anyway? I'm disgraceful? I would say that badmouthing your wife after a divorce is disgraceful and there isn't any justification for it even if you are angry. Have your opinion but I guarantee you do not want to take cheap shots or question how I treat people. You don't know me so don't start making assumptions.
I said your POSITION is disgraceful. And it is. By your own admission, you are a fan of the team. Logically, I assume players matter little except what they can do for your team. This was furthered by the fact that when I asked you about hakeem in his prime - even then a whiny b**** I might add - you are willing to put up with the whiny b**** becasue he is an amazing player. Players are commodities after all. If he plays well, he can whine all he wants. If he sucks, get rid of his whiny ass. Similar to kicking him to the curb. That is just two faced - looking at him in the eyes all the while plotting to kick him in the balls. Yeah, that's real honorable!
Do I agree with Hakeem? Yes. Do I think it was classless to talk about it now? Yes. But do I enjoy this little charade? Hell yeah.
Disgraceful? I am amazed by this statement. Basketball is entertainment. Basketball players are just basketball players, nothing more. The ONLY way most people know Hakeem Olajuwon is in the context of basketball. In my opinion, the real disgrace is elevating the status of a basketball player to the level of a role model or hero, when better examples can be found in our hospitals, schools, and churches. Yeah, I admit it. I only care about what Hakeem brought to the Rockets. So what? Of course its impersonal, I've never met the man. I wish him well in his future endeavors, but I don't revere or idolize him. Why should I? Houston hardly "kicked Hakeem to the curb". The Rockets did him a favor by sign-and-trading him to a playoff team in the East for more money than he would have gotten elsewhere. He's been financially well compensated and showered with adulation ever since he set foot in Houston. He's been part of a fine organization which assembled talent around him for 2 successful championship runs. Now, he's in a great situation, in good shape for another playoff run, where he doesn't have to carry the team.
