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Hakeem & blocks - Stockton & assists

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by peleincubus, Apr 9, 2016.

  1. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Will anyone ever be able to break these records? I'd have to say no. Chris Paul has been in the league for 10 years has been healthy and still not even half way there. And unless Duncan plays until he is 55 years old Hakeem's record has no one even remotely close to him.

    In my eyes these are both almost as untouchable as Ricky Henderson's steal record in baseball and Wayne Gretsky's goals and points records in hockey. They are just not ever going to be broken.
     
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Guys dont block shots like Hakeem did anymore.

    7 footers trying to take charges smh
     
  3. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Nobody really takes the blocks record seriously since they didn't keep track during the era where Russell, Wilt and Kareem would be able to block almost every shot that came close to the rim.

    The assists record will probably go down eventually... but not by anybody who's currently playing.
     
  4. JoeBarelyCares

    JoeBarelyCares Contributing Member

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    Kareem and Bill Russell have already broken Hakeem's record.
     
  5. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Harden also doesn't hold the turnover record, because they didn't start tracking that until 1978 :)
     
  6. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Kareem would have more, but not that much more. They recorded all but his 1st 4 years. Probably would have beaten Hakeem by a few hundred, but he also played 13,000 minutes more.
     
  7. omgTHEpotential

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    I doubt that. If anything, the league will probably be shortening the regular season, which will make that assist record almost unbreakable.
     
  8. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    The fact that Stockton was able to break it just within a few years of Magic... and the fact that the NBA now features a more uptempo game in terms of pace than what Stockton had for more than half his career (more possessions, more possible shots, more possible assists) all points to this record not necessarily being "unbreakable".

    Sure, it will take the perfect combination of a pass-first player who is able to play a really long time, stay healthy, and play within the same parameters of previous eras (same number of overall games/year, same rules as far as what is an assist and what isn't, etc.).

    But, its not unbreakable... I think the most unbreakable record out there is Dimaggio's consecutive game hit streak (mainly because of the growing trend of lower batting averages, higher strikeouts... and the fact that only one player has come close to the brink since he set it over 60 years ago).
     
  9. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
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    If Kidd and Nash couldn't break Stockton's record, the chances of someone breaking it will be very small.

    Among active players, Chris Paul has the best chance, if he can stay healthy till he is 40 years old.

    Hakeem's record is even harder, given the trend of basketball now.
     
  10. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    but stockton is like a super-combination of all the perfect factors. he was great at assists, he played for 19 years, basically played 82 games every single game, and played in jerry sloan's system which generated a ton of assists for the point guard, and may or may not have had help from the home scorekeeper (maybe everybody gets help to the same degree). the sloan system and the 82 games a year are just so unlikely to be recreated for such a long stretch like 19 years (i realize sloan wasn't his first coach). also throw in the fact that he seemingly was unaggressive with his own shot almost to a fault. if people think chris paul should be more aggressive, stockton was another level beyond paul even.

    stockton was putting up 13+ assists per game seasons while playing all 82 games. he went over 1100 assists in 5 straight seasons.

    magic johnson, playing in showtime, never even broke 1000 assists. chris paul has never broken 925 assists. jason kidd never went over 808 assists.

    and pace probably won't mean much. stockton's teams averaged a 94.5 pace. even with a fairly large jump this year, the league-wide pace is only 95.8, the first time it's been over 94.5 in 20 years. even the fastest team is only right at 100. and with the decrease in minutes per game most players are seeing largely due to more required rotations on defense, any increase in pace is likely to be offset by minutes.

    stockton is just so far ahead. people can barely average 10 apg at their peaks. to beat stockton you have to do it for 20 years and essentially not miss a game. maybe in several decades if better health and training allow players to play for 25+ years someone could do it, but based on what we know now no one will beat the record. chris paul would have to play another 11 seasons at the same assist total as his first 11 seasons and then still need another season around 7 apg at the age of 42 to beat the record. maybe someone will surprise me.



    blocks are just so de-emphasized now it seems that it's hard to see someone getting hakeem's record. hassan whiteside is leading blocks per game 3.7 to 2.3 this season and 3.7 would tie for hakeem's 5th best season.
     
  11. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    The crazy thing about Stockton is that he only averaged a bit over 21 minutes per game for his first 3 seasons and still averaged more assists than some of the top point guards today. For him to not start playing over 30 mpg til 25 years old and still have such a record is unbelievable. These days 19 year old kids are playing heavy minutes and they still will never get close.
     
  12. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Could post francis 4 prez,

    I think another reason the assist record will be hard to break is because of the eradication of illegal defense rules. Defenses against elite PnRs now use help defense that would be illegal previously. Stockton would be trapped or switched, while help is closer to Malone than previously possible.

    I doubt this prevents Utah was being a premier team. But it prevents them from running the Stockton/Malone PnR down opponents' throats. Sloan and Stockton would have adjusted to run more motion offense vs nearly exclusive PnR, but motion would distribute assists around. Stockton's personal assists would drop, but Utah would still be a contender. Plus, Stockton would probably shoot more.
     
  13. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    that's definitely another thing. if more teams migrate to the spurs/warriors type offense, it will be hard to concentrate assists in one player.
     
  14. Disturbed

    Disturbed Member

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    Yea but that doesn't diminish what Kareem did just because he played more minutes. It's an accomplishment to be playing 80 games a season into your 40's and still be blocking shots.

    Hakeem played 19,000 more minutes than Mark Eaton who averaged the most blocks per game for a career. You can't really penalize someone for having a longer career.

    Either way Hakeem has the record regardless of minutes played. And I don't see that being broken.
     

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