That was in response to us being hypocrites for liking the Hack a Howard when we beat the Lakers a few years ago. I loved the win but hated the strategy.
I agree - but until they change it, the players are the ones in control, they could simply get better and stop it themselves. We are only concerned because our GM got players at the 4-5 who can't shoot em. DD
That's right. If our bigs could shoot 'em and we were playing the Clippers we'd be laughing our socks off while our team hacked their bigs to death.
Technical foul for 'unsportsmanlike conduct', guy of your choice shoots Technical Free Throw, fouled player takes two shots...maybe possession. 2nd Tech gets player ejected. If the coach is telling his player to Foul DeAndre / Josh / Dorsey etc, he can get a Tech as well... I know everyone is saying, 'Just make your free throws', and for now that's what we have to do, but if the NBA wants to continue to get mega bucks from sponsors & TV deals, then they have to put out a product that is exciting. The other day was excruciating to watch, & not just because I'm a Rockets Fan...if I was a Spurs fan, I'd be embarrassed that my coach would turn into a Human Vagina, and resort to gutter ball bush league tactics. Imagine the NBA inviting European & Asian delegates to watch an NBA game between the two Western Conference Powerhouses to promote the game overseas? They would've politely got up & left half way through the 46 minute 3rd Qtr. Embarrassing that the league killed off the big man in the post, for a more fluid, faster & entertaining game. That they reward the speedy wings & guards who get Fouled on the break with a 'clear path' foul...but they won't do anything to protect the Big Man from being Marginalised out of the game by a loophole that in the rules that allows you to foul someone who has nothing to do with the play.
Why should the NBA change a rule to cover up a player's deficiency? Most of these guys are getting paid millions of dollars to play basketball, they're suppose to make an uncontested 15 foot shot with ease. And to those clamoring that Pop is making a mockery of the game for using this strategy, no. He's making a mockery out of guys like Josh Smith for disrespecting the game and not learning how to shoot proper free throws.
Translation: Wah. Wah-wah. I mean seriously, what a ****ing joke. Popovich is paid to win games, not produce pretty basketball. Same reason the fines/threats from the league when he sits players during big games are a joke. Popovich makes choices to improve his team's chances of winning games & championships, and has had phenomenal success doing so over the last 15 years. Yes - the difference, I would hope obviously to everyone, being that one of these 2 can be easily defeated. One of these things is not like the other, dude. I mean seriously. There was no easy/simple fix for the 4-corner offense. There was not a 1 neat trick available that would, without fail, force the opposing team to give up the ball via shot/pass/turnover, until the shot clock was instituted. There is, anyone with any experience playing the game (YMCA/bush league/little league/school league) will tell you, a 1 neat trick solution to the hack-a. Make your goddam free throws, even if you must shoot them underhanded. I cannot believe adults are now giving these guys a pass because it's "just too hard" for them. Shaq going 0 for 8 and giving the Pacers a win in the 1995 playoffs was embarrassing. Just like, as a fan in general. I remember Houston fans waving 0-8 signs to humiliate him. Justifiably. You shouldn't be able to get within throwing distance of a court if you can't go 1/8. Again, a piss-poor excuse. To my ears it's like saying "well, you'll always have guys that aren't going to run back on defense." It's your job to run back on D. It's your job to try to rebound. It's your job to shoot FTs respectably if you're paid to do so. This isn't a "strength vs. weakness" thing. I'm fine with the idea that big men will shoot a lower percentage, but less than 1/2 is unacceptable. My definition of "terrible" is going 5/10 from the line. Yours seems to be "anyone that can walk up to the line and chuck the ball in the direction of the hoop." We/I don't. Rather, I think that shooting 20% from the free throw line and expecting to get a perpetual bail-out is asnine and entitled, far more than the tactical (albeit painful-to-watch) decision of hacking someone. Shoot them underhanded. There is no excuse.
Well, it's a "piss-poor excuse" in the same way that gravity is a piss-poor excuse for bruising your butt when you fall to the ground. It's just reality. I'm not "making excuses" for players. Some of us are dealing with the reality of players over the last many decades. You can preach all day and hope that someone has a fifty-year throw-back in time to when multiple players shot underhanded free throws (and that is clearly your choice), or you can live in the real world, where, from Wilt onward, we have had a set of big men who just can't make free throws with any consistency. I don't think Naismith envisioned intentional fouling away from the ball, but you probably know best about that as well. Good luck with your underhanded free throw campaign. (I don't mean the campaign is "underhanded" in a villainous way, for surely, it is the most virtuous campaign imaginable. Hear hear!)
My overall point was that some players have improved as much as humanly possible. It's not like Dwight doesn't try to get better at FTs. That's the misconception is disagree with. He knows its a glaring weakness in his game. You really think his attitude is "nah, I dont feel like practicing FT." Of course not. He's put in countless hours and is the shooter that he is. He has improved as much as he can. Comparing him to players like Duncan and Yao is a little unfair. Yes, the hand size and wingspan are similar, but Dwight is so bulky in comparison. He's a banger, a physical abuser in the post, like Shaq, and unlike Duncan and Yao. Find me a good FT shooter with shoulders the size of bowling balls, like Dwight. That's not a callout, I'm genuinely curious if there's a good FT shooter with a build like Dwight. Again, see explanation above. Comparing Dwight to Dirk is unfair. It's not just height + length + hand size. It's having the upper body of a body builder. Dirk's game is not predicated on banging in the post. It's predicated on shooting over players from midrange. 100% agree. I just don't think a loophole should exist to effectively penalized a team for a player's natural limitations. My overarching point is this: I strongly doubt that Dwight, and our other big men, have not *tried* to get better at FTs. That approach is asinine, in my opinion. Maybe that's a valid argument if they are young players, like Capela. But I believe they have gotten as good at FTs as humanly possible, they are just naturally not good FT shooters.
You still aren't getting it, and yes you are. You're trying to fog up the argument instead of tackling my/our assertion that everyone must shoot free throws, and everyone can absolutely be expected to make at least half of those free throws. Because it's a ****ing free point. Again, you're just giving these paid professionals a pass by...i mean, really... comparing missing free throws to the inevitability of your ass hitting the ground when you fall? This is ****ing sad. How cynical and dejected can you get... Muscle memory. Practice. Dedication. All that's expected is 1 out of 2. That is an insanely low bar to clear for... you know, things that basketball players are paid to do. Like make layups. I'm dealing with the reality of coaches making tactical choices to foul big men in the hope/expectation of throwing their team's rhythm off and, more importantly, leaving them with 0 points for the possession. The proper response to that reality is to man up and make free throws. Not bail out the laughably bad FT shooter. Yes, let's please go back and make sure everything that's done in every nook and cranny of professional basketball fits into what someone thinks of as Naismith's holy vision for basketball rules and regulations. What a crock. I'm going to assume the 50-year-throwback remark was about the "ancient, grandpa-era" underhanded shot suggestion. So you're one of those guys that'd rather see Dwight hit 4/10 with horrible form than 7.5/10 underhanded? Not even a choice. We have a series of big men that either will not or cannot work on their free throws to the point where they can consistently hit 1+/2, irregardless of how they have to go about doing that. Watching a Free Throw shooting contest, or something resembling the awful tedium of Friday night's game, isn't fun for anyone. Watching guys like Patty Mills and Ginobili flop without consequence is bad for the game, also. The fix for flopping is to get it out of the game. The fix for not performing a fundamental part of your job is to start doing so.
No doubt, & Popavich is an excellent coach, that runs a tight ship...that doesn't take away from the fact that the outdated and farcical loophole in the rules that he exploited needs to be changed - because it is not in the spirt of the game. Yes he used the rule to his advantage, & hats off to him for getting the W...& once again you're right: 'He is there to win games, not produce pretty basketball.' - but the NBA commissioner & head office is paid to produce 'pretty basketball' • Elimination of hand checking. • Restricted area. • Widening of the lane. • Barkley rule - 5 second backdown. • Clear Path foul. • Delay of Game. • Flopping fines. • Hanging on the Ring. • Taunting. • Freedom to drive rule. All these rule changes, even way back to the introduction of the shot clock & 3 point shot were introduced to produce Pretty Basketball. If you read my post again, I never admonished Popavich for winning the game, but I just pointed out that instead relying on his players skill & running plays to win the Game, he employed the Hacka...Hacka, long regarded as the tool of the desperate. Good for him that he got the win. Pat on the back. Yes, I may have called him a human vagina in the process, because it is a horrible thing to do to such a beautiful game. The league owes it to its fans and sponsors to put out a product that is not only exciting, but good to watch...Pretty, as you say. If I wanted to watch a free throw shooting contest, I'd go down to the local Gym with my son. The NBA has done so much in the last 3 decades to take our sport to the heights of success & marketability internationally. They have implemented rule changes to make the game more fluid, quicker and palatable. The time has come to change this farcical rule & the Popavich game may have been the game to bring on that change. That was my point.
This argument keeps being attempted repeatedly: Because players could do better at free throw shooting, there is nothing wrong with the existence of the "hack" rule and no amendment is needed. Or my personal favorite: Popovich is a great coach, therefore there is nothing wrong with the "hack" rule and no amendment is needed. Can you see any issues there? Rage all you want, you're the one building an argument on no foundation. The league should have resolved this a dozen years ago before anyone could use Pop as a mascot.
Karl Malone Charles Barkley David Robinson Larry Johnson Hakeem Serge Ibaka Antonio Davis Amare Stoudemire Demarcus Cousins Shawn Kemp Kyle O'Quinn Aron Baynes Andrew Bynum (for crying out loud he shot 69%) Artis Gilmore (another 69%er, believe it or not) James Worthy Thurl Bailey Greg Foster Swen Nater Anthony Davis Rasheed Wallace Derrick Coleman Kenny Walker Pat Ewing Alonzo Mourning Danny Schayes Sean Rooks Roy Tarpley Lasalle Thompson Tree Rollins Roy Hinson Cole Aldrich (another guy I wanted to sign over Dorsey) Antoine Carr Arvydas Sabonis (dude was a house) Dave Cowens Nikola Pekovic Ben Poquette Moses Malone Rick Mahorn Jeff Ruland Matt Geiger Bob Pettit Clyde Lovellette Robin Lopez (for crying out loud he's at 76%) Alexis Ajinca Calvin Booth (this guy couldn't play offense or defense but he could knock down his free throws) Joe Kleine (your quintessential 6-foul big, you didn't want him catching the basketball, he was a worse finisher than Omer Asik, but dude could knock down his freebies) James Donaldson (another no talent statue in the lane, but he could shoot free throws) Mark Blount Bill Cartwright (crappy form but still knocked them down at 77%) Rik Smits Melvin Turpin Wayman Tisdale (rest in peace young man) Armen Gilliam (rest in peace too) Maurice Lucas (talk about nasty) Daryl Dawkins (dude shot 68.5% for his career) Bison Dele (rip, 69%) Elden Campbell Brad Dougherty Charles Smith Kevin Duckworth A.C. Green Sam Lacey Dave Robisch Mark Olberding George Mikan (rim was still 10 feet and FTs were 15 feet) Robert Parish Carlos Boozer Theo Ratliff James Edwards Benoit Benjanim I think that's enough for now. You can disqualify whomever you want. I dare you to disqualify them all. And if you want some more.....I'll get you some more. Here's the truth. The teaching, coaching, and training of NBA big men has gone in the dumper over the last 20 years. I don't know all the reasons for it. But it is very clear that today's bigs are much less skilled than their predecessors. And SHOOTING A BASKETBALL is STILL the #1 most valuable skill in the game. There's plenty of body builders in the list I gave you. Karl Malone, Antonio Davis, etc. Being a body builder has N-O-T-H-I-N-G to do with how good or how poor you shoot free throws. Natural limitations, eh? Most of these guys can step one step inside the free throw line and dunk the durn ball. Hand size? No excuse. Plenty of big-handed guys knocking them down over 70%. Perfect practice makes perfect. "Tried" doesn't mean they've done it right. Dwight obviously hasn't. Shaq never did. Karl Malone came into the league shooting 48% from the FT line as a rookie. The rest is history. There's no excuses unless these guys have broken their wrists or arms and now shoot with defective true limited range of motion or untrue motion ala Ben Wallace, Andrew Bogut, and Ronnie Brewer. Studies have shown that body building doesn't limit range of motion. So, pumping iron and having a muscled physique isn't an excuse.
Reading this thread makes my head hurt. It's simple, learn to make free throws. You are a professional, this is your job. Learn to do it.
For those who want to institute a rule to prohibit hack a whoever, I'm just curious if you were a proponent of such a rule back in the mid 90's to mid 2000's when shaq was playing or when Dwight was in Orlando or with the Lakers?
so, instead of missing 2 FTs, he misses 3? or that only works, if you want to break the record of most attempted FTs in one game. I dont think the Spurs wouldnt mind if he shots 3 FTs.
Odd people here feel hacking is a detriment to the game and yet we rely on a superstar who purposely tries to get fouled and which many NBA fans call 'boring'. And don't bother trying to justify one but not the other. They are both not in the 'spirt of the game' or enjoyable to watch. I am all for 'smarter not harder' so I have major respect for Harden cracking the code. And whomever hacks us, I might do the same.
Congratulations on completing "Twisting My Words 101." Point #1: I see 0 issues here. Players could/can/should/must be expected to hit 1 out of 2 free throws per trip to the line. To expect anything less is bush league. Consistently hitting 1+/2 from the free throw lines will cause most, if not all, hack-a to cease. None of you has consistently come up with a reasonable reason these professionals cannot either achieve that mediocre number overhand or utilize an underhanded shot. Point #2: Nowhere did I say that Popovich is a good coach because he employs the hack-a. So now you're making **** up. Try tackling my statements head-on now. Popovich is an excellent head coach, period. He's proven that time after time over the last 15 years, it's not really in question. He makes decisions, as all good coaches do, to improve the chances his team will win games. Fouling a 28% free throw shooter on a poor streak? Maybe not such a bad idea. Thanks, son. Sometimes the simplest answer - that NBA players should be expected and able to hit 1 out of 2 free throws - is the right one. This x 1,000,000. Harden's game, to me, is both statistically and (for the most part) aesthetically beautiful. And while he may have the (added?) benefit of some additional whistles thrown his way, most of his FT attempts come as the result of players legit fouling him as he breaks ankles and aggressively attacks the basket. My eyes might not find it exciting to watch him shoot 15 FT a game, but my basketball self loves the easy, free points he piles up.
Can you tell me why a 6-11 Arron Baynes can shoot at a .87 rate? Splitter (6-11) used to be hacked by other teams but now he's improved his ft to .75.
