Guys, you get pissed off that Tmac is a jumpshooter yet youi want Kobe

you're right Isiah had better teammates, but so did Michael Jordan....the fact remains Isiah > Tmac.............Paul > Tmac

 

So, if you put T-Mac on the Pistons or Bulls teams, do you think the results would have been similar? I say yes. Jordan could not find his way out of a paper bag until the right players were put around him. Doesn't mean Jordan was not a great player.

T-mac is in Jordan/Kobe territory, Isiah and Paul are not. That is a fact!

 

LMAO......I give you'll props for having so much faith in the guy..........I don't even know what to say anymore..............

 

Yeah, even I agree that what he is saying is too much.

But, in terms of comparing Paul to T-Mac, you must remember Paul is not the player Isiah was in his prime, and it isn't even close. And he still has to do what he is doing for a few years so we know what we are seeing (not so much the passing numbers, but high shooting % and such) is legit.

 

I do have faith in him. Besides, the stats don't lie. There are not many players in the histor of the NBA that have his skills. Even the NBA experts say as much, so not so sure why its funny to you.

 

you can't just magically throw a player in a situation and think just because he has some stats and can make a couple of highlights that he could achieve the same things as others before him..................

 

I guess we will never know since T-Mac has never had any quality around him to be able to prove it.

 

this sort of reminds me when John Lopez (who is an idiot by the way) said that Yao could've gotten the rockets back to back titles if he replaced Hakeem in 94 and 95.................

 

Yes, but you can make some reasonable assessments based on the players overall skill set (that is substantiated by his stats). There is always some margin for error, but in the end T-Mac is a great player, not the marginal player you appear to convict him of. If he was surrounded by the talent those guys had, I think he would have a couple of championships and your perception would be different.

Beside, it is not about his highlights, it is about sustained excellence. I believe that if it were not of the cronic back issues, he would be seen in a different light. You look at his production prior to the back issues surfacing, he was phenomenal, and now after the issues surface they are still top 10 in the league.

I am not saying todays T-Mac is the greatest player in the NBA, but he is still clearly one of the best (top 10 as Nitro pointed out).

 

Yao is not near the player Hakeem was, but I think your comparison of Paul to T-Mac has a similar inference to Lopez's.

 

we're trying to compare kobe and tmac's effect to the team and we also tried to consider some significant distractions. it turned out that 2003 Lakers lost to SA in the second round. Not bad at all.

literally, it sounds generations. I didn't want to use your immediate family because it won't be good. the point i was trying to make was Kobe's situation on the rape case was worse than losing a family. It's not that I choose the the latter but when you face a trial for a possible 4year jail term, it's more mentally stressful than losing a family where you can recover after a year but when you're in jail, you're not even guaranteed that you can step on nba court when you come back.

but it's pointless to discuss further since Nitro pointed out that it was not the same year. And the Lakers made it ot teh 2nd round that year.

 

I really like this thread

cuz I totally agree

and T-mac does take it to the rack

But he can't exactly do it with a bad ankle

Lay OFF Mcgrady

Haters

 

Finally somebody says some trues about T-mac

 

That is really debatable, and I dont think that you can make that statement.

1st of all, if Kobe really didn't do it, then there would be nothing to worry about on his side. He is a NBA star, he has millions and millions of dollars to hire the best lawyer in the world, or just bribe the b**** and pay her 5 million to drop the case. He knew he would get out of it. That is saying he DIDNT rape her, which we will never know. They would HAVE to have conclusive evidence showing that kobe DID rape her for him to get thrown in jail. If they did have conclusive evidence, then that means kobe did rape her, so he should go to jail for 4 years. Again, if he really didn't do it, he knew he would be fine.

Going off what you said, going to trial is a bigger deal than losing a family member. If your mother dies, and you have been really close to her your whole life, I dont see how anything could be more stressful then that, and in this case, just a trial for something Kobe said he didn't do. They had no evidence for it, and Kobe knew that. Therefore he knew he would get off easy, which takes all of the stress off it.

 

What Tmac is to Kobe is what Drexler was to Jordan. They are 1 and 2 in the league as far as dynamic big shooting guards go. Drexler was just as athletic, if not more than Jordan. However, Jordan had more passion, killer instinct, he was very clutch, had much more in his skill set offensively, and was a lock down man-to-man defender. Drexler was much stronger, a better rebounder and could play the passing lanes better, but he wasn't the playmaker Jordan was. Theres a reason why Jordan won 6 championships in 6 tries, and Drexler only won 1 in 3 tries.

Tmac is just as skilled as Kobe, and at one time in his career (Magic days) he was just as athletic, if not more than Kobe. But Kobe has what Jordan had, the passion, the killer instinct, and the clutch plays. Kobe is also a better one-on-one defender. Tmac can be at times, but he can't do it for 48 minutes, but he is still a good team defender.

Neither one are very great jumpshooters and both take ill-advised shots at times, but they can both rise up over their defender to where their shots cannot be contested. Tmac is a better playmaker in my opinion, because he sets up his teamates better than Kobe does. But when it comes to taking over a game, Kobe beats Tmac in that category. He will attack the rim more now a days than Tmac will. In his Orlando days, Tmac didn't attack the rim as much as Kobe did, but he did attack more than he has in the last couple of years.

When it comes down to it, if you want to build your team around Yao, Tmac is the guy to have as his side kick, because of his unselfishness, and his talents go hand in hand with Yao's. But if you want a selfish, but incredible ballplayer to lead your team, then Kobe is the guy, but he will take the hard road to winning games. Instead of riding feeding Yao for easier shots throughout the game Kobe wants to win his way. Kobe will be more satisfied with Kobe going 12/35 and Yao only shooting 5/8, and they barely win a game, instead of him going 10/19 and Yao going for 11/13 and they blow a team out. Kobe HAS to get his, and that would ruin the chemistry on the Rockets, IMHO.

Kobe's selfishness is what keeps him from being fully compared to Jordan. Until he fixes that, he shouldn't be compared to Jordan.

 

^
just so you know, Kobe is nowhere near as selfish as Jordan was.

 

Great job of comparing the two, I agree with you completely, and you stated this very well.

 

Well said! I am waiting for the Isaih is better than Drexler & Paul is better than Drexler comparisons though.

 

I know Michael Jordan was selfish in his first few years in the league, but he was basically in the same situation Tmac was in, back when he played for Orlando. They both had to take the majority of the shots and had to have the ball in their hands for the majority of the game because they had no one else who could create their own shot. Nobody blamed them for taking the shots they did, because they had no chance of winning otherwise. If they took most of the shots, they atleast had a slim chance of winning the game.

Once Jordan got the pieces he needed, he became a lot less selfish (Phil Jackson had a lot to do with that as well.) When Tmac was traded to the Rockets, he immediately defferred to Yao, so that the game would become easier for him and the team.

What makes Kobe selfish is that when he had Shaq at his most dominant stage of his career, he would still make selfish decisions, and take difficult shots instead of giving to Shaq who was sure to get 2 points or draw a foul or an and 1.

Its been 11 years now, and Kobe hasn't changed his game in terms of becomingf unselfish. It took Tmac about 6 or 7 years to figure out that he can't win on his own. It took Jordan about 6 or 7 years as well to figure that out. For Kobe to WIN 3 titles WITH Shaq and then trade him away so he can average 30+ ppg the last 3 seasons, thats as selfish as anybody can be in the NBA.

 

Just one thing more than you. I understand that Morey does not ONLY use statistics.