Guys, you get pissed off that Tmac is a jumpshooter yet youi want Kobe

Once again, for the last time, they are virtually identical in terms of shot selection...the stats prove that.

He doesn't quit like T-Mac? What about game 7 vs the Suns, when he took 1 shot in the 2nd half and then afterwards Charles said that he was very, very selfish for doing that? Or what about in the game vs the Kings a few years back when he refused to shoot the entire game because the media kept on ripping him for shooting a lot?

Kobe has a lot of passion, more than T-Mac, but that same passion and ego often are counterproductive.

 

Kobe's great but what these Kobe Lovers and TMac Bashers will prove...is that they don't know what they really want.

Kobe could be here putting up some monster 50 point games but locking out his teammates, jacking up braindead fadeaways and ill-advised threes barely winning or simply losing...

then what would the Kobe Lovers really have to say? These people who bash on TMac in order to suck up to Kobe are the types who find something to whine about.

I appreciate that TMac carried the load, was instrumental in getting the Rockets 50+ wins last year in Yao's absence with a roster LESS TALENTED THAN WHAT KOBE HAD!

Ain't no way Kobe could have gotten the Rockets 50 wins as efficiently as TMac did last year.

Like nitro said...there's a team wide problem in running the supposed-motion offense and getting guys to shoot well and not be careless with the ball! TMac has done his part this year and is no. 3 in scoring generally right behind Kobe.

Kobe's "passion" is fine when there are other great players on the team that can counteract that "passion" when it proves counterproductive. Kobe's "passion" has not gotten HIM out of the first round either sans Shaquille O'Neal, period.

Otherwise, I'll take McGrady's ability to get his teammates involved with his greater dishing talent.

 

Hotzone comparisons from last season for Kobe and Tracy.





Anybody that thinks that Tmac takes it to the hole as much as kobe is delusional.

I also posted this in another thread which compare ft attempts to fg attempts. Kobe gets to the line 10 percent better rate.

D Howard, ORL 0.92
Kevin Martin, SAC 0.60
R. Jefferson, NJN 0.59
LeBron James, CLE 0.52
Manu Ginobili, SAS 0.51
Allen Iverson, DEN 0.51
Stoudemire, PHO 0.49
Paul Pierce, BOS 0.48
Michael Redd, MIL 0.44
Yao Ming, HOU 0.43
Dirk Nowitzki, DAL 0.43
Kobe Bryant, LAL 0.43
Josh Howard, DAL 0.37
C. Anthony, DEN 0.37
Kevin Durant, SEA 0.37
D. Williams, UTH 0.35
Baron Davis, GSW 0.33
McGrady, HOU 0.33
Chris Paul, NOR 0.32
Tony Parker, SAS 0.32
A. Jamison, WAS 0.29
Carlos Boozer, UTH 0.29
Caron Butler, WAS 0.28
Joe Johnson, ATL 0.25

 

1) Remember that T-Mac played about 10 games or so less than Kobe.

2) Remember that T-Mac started off the year injured.

3) This year's stats are different...T-Mac is getting the paint more and shooting a higher %, as seen in the 82games stats.

4) Interesting...T-Mac clearly shoots a better % from the midrange game than Kobe. And outside of T-Mac's 1 cold area and Kobe's 1 hot area from the 3, that also looks very similar.

 

According to 82 games, TMac shoots 78% jumpers, while kobe shoots 74% and Kobe gets to the line 4 more times a game which means he takes at least 2 times more a game than Tmac that doesn't count in this statistic.

 

He doesn't take 4 more FTA's per game, he takes 2 more...8.5 to 6.5. The 82games stat you are looking at is FTA per 48min, and I believe it is only a 3 FTA difference, not 4.

And 4% of 20FGA is 0.8FGA. That is less than 1 jumpshot per FGA between them.

 

Look, you can argue with your stats and figures all you want, but one point you absolutely have to concede is that whenever teams play the lakers and they are leading in the fourth quarter, no fan of that team feels safe until the buzzer has sounded and they have actually gotten the W. Kobe puts that fear in his opponent that he will always be able to come back and win a game thru sheer effort, whether it happens or not is irrelevant, but the emotional boost that provides his team is invaluable. Plain and simple, he is a killer each and every game, as is d wade, as was jordan. Lebron is starting to develop that killer mentality as well, that is what seperates tmac from those three guys. Tmac is arguably the most talented of the group from a pure talent and versatility perspective, but this intangible quality is what will prevent him from being mentioned in the same breath as those three. A good comparison would be mj vs dominique. Dominique was just as good and efficient a scorer as mj in his prime, but was just not ever a winner, for whatever reason.

 

I'm gonna agree and disagree with a Nitro and tha Rowie guy were debating about. I agree with both guys on some points and diagree with both on other points.


As I see it, Passion does effect the way a team approaches a game. Passion effects the way a team plays a game. Passion effects the way a team finishes a game. There are nights it seems like T-Mac doesn't play with passion at times.

However, passion doesn't make shots fall, passion doesn't keep you from TO over the ball. Get my drift........

I'm not gonna jump on the Kobe bandwagon cause he plays with more passion. Kobe can come in here play with passion and everyone esle can play with passion while at the same time not understanding this system still not hitting shots. What do you do then?

T-mac and Yao is far from the problem. They have been consistent all season thus far. This system is a problem at the moment. This team doesn't get it yet. We need to bring in guys that will fit this system or you get rid of this system. The role players are a problem at the moment. They can't even buy a basket. We need to bring in guys who are at least able to afford to buy a basket. This team still lacks PG option that can come in take over the game when T-mac and Yao are doubled time. IE Tony Parker type guard. Until we get that, we gonna get burnt comes playoff time.

Passion can only take a team so far without anything esle in place first.......

 

You don't think opposing teams get scared if TMac has the ball? Are the double and triple teams all game long not enough proof of that?

A lot of people here are speaking from emotion, and letting that cloud what they truly see. It's ok, my fiance' does it all the time.

Realize you will always b**** about your team. Just read this board. We could have the damn allstar team, and you guys would still b****. Kobe so great...I remember a time when there was Kobe, Shaq, Malone, Payton on a team. I don't believe they won? Kobe is an outstanding player as is Tracy. Team-wise...I pass on Kobe. Stats are there, they play very very similar styles of ball. Kobe can pump his chest, or Tracy can walk and flick his chin. I don't care. I just don't think Kobe is the answer to the Rockets' problems.

 

how???...he was ahead 3-1 once and couldn't pull his team over (I believe he played bad for the remainder of that series), was up 2-0 once and couldn't get his team over, and last year he didn't play "great" against Utah....and he dissapeared down the stretch in game 7.........

rewatch the tape of game 7 and see where tmac is down the stretch...

kobe shoots jump shots, but he is a better pure shooter...and he does take it to the basket more often and is stronger when taking it into the paint.

that tmac is soft....and a choke artist.

 

they respect him to an extent....but they don't fear him like they fear wade, kobe, or bron........the other 3 have proven themselves.......tmac hasn't....

I can separate emotion from fact...and the fact is tmac is soft........

i also remember a time when kobe won 3 rings........I also remember many times where kobe took over down the stretch in those title years when shaq had fouled out..........tmac isn't in the same league as the Black Mamba.

 

That's a pretty impressive first post. Kudos!

 

KOBE is cr*p

we dont need them.

 

why of course he is...............brilliant post.

 

Here is a stat that is not being counted.

Games takeovers when the player is cold.

TMac won´t care about that game if he is cold.

Kobe can suddenly turn on and compete.


TMac is not going to compete on anyway if his shot is not falling, Kobe will always compete till the end, just look at Kobe´s defense on this season and looks at Tracy... Kobe shows commitment while Tracy shows... nothing.

 

I love it when people lose out on facts, they start using "feel" for their argument.

I am with the thread starter. I too watch a lot of Lakers games. I wonder how many of the people here who think Kobe is god really watch much of Lakers ball.

BTW, Kobe also gets way more preferential treatment from the refs than TMac. T-Mac simply doesn't whine to the officials as much as Kobe and Phil Jackson.

 

Yes, Kobe is more of a clutch player than T-Mac...but as you have seen this year, the team has won their fare share of close games this season (Lakers, Jazz, Pistons, Bobcats, etc...)...clutch play is not the problem. In the playoffs when things get tight it might be a problem that arises (although T-Mac has been quite good the past few years in the playoffs down the stretch), but right now that problem is one of the absolute last ones the Rockets should be concerned about.

What seperates T-Mac from those group of players is 3 things- 1) T-Mac has a superstar center who largely takes away from T-mac's potential production, which was at 30PPG on 45% shooting when Yao was out last season, 2) Injuries, 3) Playoff success, which all 3 of those guys have had, and T-Mac, fairly or not, has not had.



To Rowdie...

And once again, the Rockets as a team were 4-5, 3-3 from the line in the final 4min of the game...offense was the LAST problem for the Rockets down the stretch of game 7.

That is the point of the thread, not that Kobe is a better or worse player than T-Mac, which everyone is virtually anonymous on.

I also remember times when Kobe did not come up in the clutch, opting to shoot a 28ft 3 while being double teamed and completely ignoring a wide open player (he actually did this in 2 straight games in 05-06, I was at the first game which was against the Nets). I also remember times when he went outside of the offensive gameplan, which caused great friction between him and Shaq behind closed doors. I also remember him completely mentally shutting down in game 7 vs the Suns. I also remember he had Shaq during that 3 peat (who regularly averaged 30/15/5 in a series), as well as a perfect supporting cast with a coach who had won 6 rings up until that point.

Just please...enough is enough already. Kobe is not perfect, neither is T-Mac. Kobe has his faults, T-Mac does as well. Bottom line is Kobe is the better player than T-Mac, but any fair weather fan will tell you that, when both are healthy, the comparison is as close as you will get with any other swingman in the league (minus Bron and Wade).

 

i agree with this....usually if tmac isn't "In it" at the beginning it will be a long night for him....Kobe, Wade, Bron, etc. have that ability to hit that switch and take over a game..............

stops are important, but as the teams best player you need to do some scoring down the stretch to put the pressure on the other team....tmac was no where to be found....that is a fact

I've been critical of kobe in the past also, but the fact remains he's much better than tracy mcgrady...............

 

It's funny how these Tmac-lovers insist their guy is better than Kobe.

Look at the current standings. Tmac sorrounded by talented players like Yao, Battier, Bonzi, Scola, James, Rafer, they're only 12-12, while Kobe and his ponies are enjoying a 60% winning percentage 14-9.

If Kobe is traded to Houston for Tmac, I'm sure even Le$ can coach us to the playoffs.