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Gundy had you fooled....

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Zboy, May 6, 2007.

  1. Zboy

    Zboy Contributing Member

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    We know it takes 5. Jazz proved it. But it takes more than just that.

    It takes a functional 5, a Coach and a of course a bench too. Jazz proved that also.

    The number one defense used for JVG is ..."yeah well it's the players fault. Obviously he is not playing out there."

    So i ask you....

    Who got these players here in the first place?
    Who refuses to develop young talent?
    Who has minimal respect for draft picks?
    Who refuses to play players that management get?
    Who has been getting into Ego wars with his players?

    I also ask you...

    How excited do you get while watching Gundy's offense?

    Do not for a second think that Gundy has no say in who comes to play for Rockets. This has been going on for a while. Gundy went and got an old Oakley. He got an old Charlie Ward. He got an old Rod Strickland. He traded away Mike James for Rafer Alston because he had talked to his brother Stan who raved about Rafer. He has refused to trade Juan on multiple occasions, once even for Cassell. Gundy has to take blame for his players because the players that he put on the floor...are the players that he went and got here in the first place.

    Was Gundy oblivious to Rafer's overall FG% and his poor defense?
    Was Gundy oblivious to Juan's losing career and terrible stint for Dallas in playoffs?
    Was Gundy not watching when Mike James helped Rockets win couple of big games in playoffs?
    Was Gundy not aware of Shane Battier accepting minimal responsibilty in past playoffs?

    Here's the kicker. If the Rockets management gets a player that Gundy does not like he will make sure they do not get off the pine. I am not a VSpan fan. At the beginning of the season I didn''t know whether he can contribute at all. Hell, I still don't know. Why? Because Gundy wanted to secure his job and refused to take risks. Had Vspan played here and there this season, we could have at least found out if this guy can do anything or not. One season in book and we are still at ground zero with him. Same with Novak. Gundy apologists claim..."Well he got 2 minutes yesterday and he sucked." Anyone who gets sporadic 2-3 minutes a game and 0 minutes most of the time is going to suck. Players need REAL GAME court time to develop. Do you guys think Barbosa and Joe Johnson came into the league averaging the numbers that they average right now?? Suns went throughh painful times to develop them. I had been following Barbosa and Johnson. They were highly mistake-prone in the beginning but Suns kept playing them. They developed them by giving them time on the court, not sitting them on the bench. Look at them now. D'Antoni still has a job because he took the risk and has had more success than JVG past couple of years.

    JVG must have the biggest ego for a coach that has never won a championship. It gets personal with him. He will not play Bonzi because his ego cant swallow pride and he refuses to be flexible for the welfare of the team. He never liked Vspan and he never wanted him on this team. When management got him here on false promises, he made sure every mistake made by Vspan was magnified. Vspan could not breathe. He had absolutely no room for error. If he made the slightest mistake, he was yanked, yelled at, and made an example of.

    I absolutely have no problem with a coach being tough on his players. Popovich does it and he has had results. But what I have problem with is double standard. If you are going to yell at Vspan or Yao for a mistake, then make sure you do the same next time when your beloved PF just sits right under the basket and does not even attempt to play defense while someone just lays the ball in. How about pulling Rafer aside and yelling at him for mindlessly chucking up shots and throwing up wild floaters. Popovich yells at Duncan, Manu and Parker just as same as he yells at 12 and 13th person on the bench. Oh right right....I know the Gundy apologists response..."Well Gundy knows his personnel and how to handle each one." If Tracy, Juan, and Rafer are so fragile that they cannot respond well to harsh words from JVG, then they are not worthy to play in big games. And judging from each of those guys performances so far (I will exclude Tmac), they might not be. JVG's double standard needs to go.

    What's ironic about all this is that the very strategy that JVG used to safeguard his job, might have been his undoing. He had one short-term goal in his mind. "Gotta keep my job". He made no attempt to hide it. So his first step? Go with people you trusted. He traded the draft pick for a guy he knew he could trust. He knew exactly what he could get from Battier and he knew Battier would do exactly what he would ask him to. Good move for short term? Sure. Long term? Very debatable. Battier is hardly a player that will shine when the spotlight is on him. We needed much more than a decent defender who will occasionally hit 3s from outside. It was a lottery pick... a reward for a really painful season...but of course Gundy has no respect for lottery. He was hell bent, the previous year, to win meaningless games... Lottery and Gundy? Match made in hell. That debacle ultimately cost us Brandon Roy. We could have had Brandon Roy but long term success for Rockets wasn't on Gundy's mind. His shortsightedness had a couple wins and a good paycheck on radar. He went with 8 man rotation for the entire season. Only players he could trust not to make any mistakes were allowed in this elite club. Zero vision for future. Well Gundy... no risk means no reward. No soup for you.

    If Gundy does not like certain players on Rockets, can he at least not bring their trade value to absolute zilch? Swift was not Gundy kinda player. Ok fine understandable. But why get in an ego war and devalue him so that we cant get anything for him? Why does it end up getting personal with Gundy? Why did he let Bonzi rot to nothing? In all the years of coaching, I don't think Rudy ever made it personal. If he thought he could get better deals for players, he would do it. He was very up front about it. I don't think he ever embarrassed his players. Gundy on the other hand seems to be hell bent on embarrassing players he never liked in the first place. That is just childish and immature. I expect better from a head coach.

    Gundy drama might cost us free agent signings. How many of you have high hopes for free agent signings? Would you be lining up to sign with the Rockets as CD claimed couple years ago after what has transpired over the years? Would you come here looking for the Swift and Bonzi treatment? And for what exactly? A first round exit?

    Moving on to the coaching part...When was the last time you sat down after a hard day's work, turned your TV on, and exclaimed, "I would love to see me some Gundy offense!" My God. If you want one coach who would never think outside of the box on offense, this guy would be your pick. I have heard that Gundy has countless schemes and X's and O's yet when it comes to game time I see only two plays run. Dump the ball to Yao and let him decide based on how offense reacts, or give the ball to Tracy and let him do "something." Tracy, of course, will be either in Iso mode or coming off of a pick. How many other plays can you think of? I have been saying it for years now....This offense is too damn predictable. Good defenses will have no problem shutting it down. Utah capitalized on it eventually. What makes this predictable offense even more poisonous is the fact that Yao is slow. Match made in hell. After all these years I am absolutely certain that Gundy cannot coach decent offense to take this team to championship. Especially in such a brutal division and conference. The gap between other teams and our team will only widen further if Gundy remains on board.

    How about the 8 man rotation eh? Well 8 man rotation is not bad when you have young munchkins with endless energy. Our star player is a 7-6 behemoth, another one has chronic back problems, we have a slow footed PF that is running on his last legs, and lastly Mutombo could have retired during the last recession. Count it. That handicapped group right there is half of our 8 man rotation logging heavy minutes in the season playing at 100% for 82 games. What does that get you when the playoffs get here? Your opponents have another gear to kick it into. While your team has only 2 choice. Either stay at the same level or go down from there. Rockets came with low energy in most of the games. WHY!?!? So much was riding for Gundy, Tracy, and Yao. Yet they came out so flat in not one, but multiple games?? Either Gundy does not know how to motivate his players or he left them with nothing in the tank. As a reference, Riley and Gundy's Knicks were often cited as playing with same energy in regular season and playoffs. Well at least they maintained that energy. This team might have spent too much energy in regular season on a 8 man rotation just to save Gundy's job.

    You can ignore all that I have said so far. Yet it will be hard for you to ignore the fact that this guy is just a bad fit for this team. Gundy cannot tap into Yao and Tmac and use their creativity. He has stifled their creative offense. It's not that he wants to. Its just that his system will regardless of what he wants.

    The sad thing in all this...This guy is a very good defensive coach, which is one of the most coveted quality for a playoff coach. He knows how to prepare his team defensively. He knows how to take away other team's strength. Yet his ego, double standards, stubbornness, short sightedness, inept and predictable offensive schemes keep him away from success. Too much drama, nothing to show for it.

    Maybe Gundy can succeed. But his kind of team would need 8 Battiers. Hardworking, yes sir-no sir, players who he can control like robots. He seems like a coach who can take a band of average players and make them overachieve, but not one who can start off with superstars and take them to next level. Unfortunately for us, we have 2 superstars and I am not sure it would wise on Les' part to get rid of two supertstars just so Gundy can continue with his mad experiments.

    "Win Now" never stood for Winning a Championship.

    "Win Now" was meant to win some games so Gundy could save his job.

    You were fooled.
     
    #1 Zboy, May 6, 2007
    Last edited: May 6, 2007
  2. Outlier

    Outlier Member

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    So should we dwell upon this and keep hitting our heads on the wall till we bleed? Changes will come, it's inevitable. Why continue this?
     
  3. Zboy

    Zboy Contributing Member

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    I am just doing my part for a change.

    No guarantees yet that there will be changes.

    Sad thing is, we had to wait for couple of failures to start back from where we began.

    Tick Tock Tick Tock...

    That's McGrady's back talking to ya.
     
  4. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Zboy- that was a FANTASTIC post.

    But you left out the lack of adjustments over a 7 game series.....

    JVG is as big a problem as a coach as the lack of heart from and softness of our key players.

    DD
     
  5. edc

    edc Contributing Member

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    Correction, "some of you" were fooled.
     
  6. Zboy

    Zboy Contributing Member

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    You are correct. I wasn't fooled. Neither were you.

    But majority were and I will leave it at that.

    On second thought....

    You know what edc,

    I will change it. Thanks for pointing it out.
     
    #6 Zboy, May 6, 2007
    Last edited: May 6, 2007
  7. alaskansnowman

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    Zboy:

    Damn good post. I agree with you for the most part, except I'm not sure how you say we could have gotten Brandon Roy. He was picked 6th and we had pick #8.

    Overall, I have had JVG's back for a while, but this playoff loss was the last straw for me. It's ok to be stubborn, but only if it leads to results. The Bonzi fiasco was just a great example of how JVG's unwillingness to budge and unwillingness to play him early on ended up costing us big time in the future. I would take a few early season mishaps in order to allow Bonzi time to get in game shape and time to adjust to the team. The future rewards are that JVG could have prevented the entire series of unfortunate events with Bonzi if he had just played him early on in the season. If he got in game shape, then he probably would not have gotten injured as well.

    Overall, the theme of your post is that JVG focuses too much on the short term. You say it's because he is worried about his job. The motivations behind his actions are not important; whats important is the final result. And we have had 0 results.

    Even looking at the Battier trade, I almost regret it now. Yes, Shane does all the intangible things on the court, which I greatly respect him for, but hell let's focus on TANGIBLES! The season stats between Shane and Rudy are pretty much a wash. The only difference is that Rudy got nearly identical stats while playing about 10 minutes less a game. The only real advantage that Shane has on Rudy is 3 point percentage (and Rudy's is still pretty good at 36%). And more importantly, Gay would bring us some future potential, some youth, some freakin athletecism that could be harnessed and developed. T-mac said so himself - "we need more athletecism." There is nobody on this Rockets team that I am excited about the prospect of developing and improving really. Novak might be decent, but we already know that one dimensional big men like him are not going to get too many minutes. The jury's still out on V-span.

    All this "WIN NOW" bs that the Rockets were spewing and we end up with a supporting cast that does not have the talent to win now, and also has no long term youth development potential. And this is not some bad luck scenario. This situation that we are in is a direct result of bad moves and bad decisions by front office and by JVG.
     
  8. Panda

    Panda Member

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    Good job Zboy.

    As long as JVG is the coach, which free agent would want to play for Houston? He burned our bridge with FAs and helped sending them to our enemies. JVG is too controlling.

    I think JVG has serious control issues stemming from his inferiority complex. He is short, bald, never played real basketball, and doesn't have great success except a lucky trip to the finals in a shortened season. Yet as a head coach he's got to issue orders to the superstars. He needs something to back up his small ego. His dictating my way or the high way style is a smokescreen covering up the inferiority complex hidden inside.

    The problem of JVG is that he never have real confidence in himself as a head coach. He quit on the Knicks and thought he had a chance to redeem himself in Houston. He was wrong. He acts tough but isn't tough. He's afraid to make changes or adjustments because if changes backfires his small ego would take a big hit. A small mind likes to repeat the same thing over and over, despite facts and reality tell him it's the wrong way time after time. All just because he's afraid to admit that he is wrong. Despite his crappy offense records for so many years he never hires a competent offensive assistant coach because his small ego can't handle it. He gets into personal wars with players he doesn't like, because his small ego can't handle different opinions.

    I've doubted JVG as the right coach for seasons, but I admit I got fooled into thinking he's tough guy. Reality has spoken in this series with his blank eyes on the bench. He's got no clue. He's got no balls. It's time for JVG to go back to where he belong, an defensive assistant coach on Pat Riley's bench. Thanks for wasting our picks, our FAs, and four years.
     
  9. MC Ren

    MC Ren Member

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    Terrific post, Zboy. Definitely on point..
     
  10. mastercs1

    mastercs1 Member

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    I LOVE THIS POST. I hate double standard too. When yao just began his career in NBA, he has enough time to play althought his performance was so bad. But how about vspan, JVD should try him too. I guess because YAO like every chinese, always say 'yes sir' to his boss.

    I am a chinese. I must say sorry to all rocket fans cause YAO's perfprmance. But we believe We will be the champion next year! SORRY!!!!
     
  11. doublebogey

    doublebogey Member

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    WTF with the "SORRY" stuff, u idiot? I am a chinese and I dont say sorry for Yao's performance. Yao plays pretty well. It's a hard fought series. Yao and T-Mac combined average for 48+ points per game. Could you ask for more? Yes, maybe they should average for 75 points per game, I wish.
     
  12. alex_jr

    alex_jr Member

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    In the end, what pisses me off most about JVG is that even after this loss, listening to the post game interview, he takes NO responsibility whatsoever for the series loss.

    He seems to believe his plan was perfect and that it just wasn't executed well by the players.

    No matter which way you look at it (arrogance/attitude or just lack of brains) that's terrible. Surely there are some things HE could have done to change all this...

    If what he is saying is acceptable than I can be a coach! Here's my plan: Score on every possesion. If that doesn't happen, I'll blame it on the players...My plan was perfect... :rolleyes:
     
  13. alex_jr

    alex_jr Member

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    BTW, If it turns out that the new york post thing is true and JVG had decided to retire weeks ago, then his "no risk"/"keep the paycheck"/whatever attitude seems even worse since it's not like he was trying to keep his job next year
     
  14. McGradySNKT

    McGradySNKT Contributing Member

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    Great summary Zboy. Many of these things are the reason people called him on alot of issues all season long, because in the end, it was sure to come crashing down, simply becase as much as he says the players haven't won anything he's a loser himself.

    He never once chastised Tracy because he saved his job during the season when Yao went down. A guy like Pop or Larry Brown would have had some choice words and gotent better results out of this team.

    Not to mention the Chronicle was a suck up newspaper all season.

    In the end Tracy was blamed, Yao was blamed, V-Span was blamed, Rafer was blamed, and now its time for the coach.


    Bye Bye Assistant coach Gundy ;)
     
  15. BoyhoodDream

    BoyhoodDream Member

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    We started off slow and trailed at ever half. Gundy made zero changes to his plan when it wasn't working. The fact that we made zero adjustments in a seven game series is a sign of bad coaching.

    I just can't believe that we left Yao on Boozer game after game when it clearly wasn't working.

    I never felt good about this series even after the first two games. Besides game 5 we showed little heart.

    I really do hope this is the last we see of Gundy Ball. Ugly Ugly basketball.
     
  16. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

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    Very good post, Zboy. Well thought-out and I completely agree with you. Van Gundy needs to go, period! If he's back next season, then as fans we just have to accept that this team's owner/management are not serious about winning it all, only making money off the collective backs of Yao and McGrady.

    And as much as I rail on Ming and Tracy for their shortcomings, I will readily admit that they're not the problem and have been shortchanged by management for a third year running in terms of surrounding them with the requisite talent to WIN in the playoffs, and not just have good regular seasons.

    At the end of the day, 111 took personal responsibility in their postgame comments, and I respect them for it. But where's the coach taking responsibility for his shortcomings? Where is JVG in all this? Did he make the necessary adjustments to counter some of what the Jazz were doing? Clearly not. So why is he not apologizing for it, even if he doesn't really mean it?

    Well, here's why: JVG is a believer. He has blind faith in his system, and he will not apologize for it. Something goes awry? Well, the players didn't execute. Not enough talent on the team? Well, not my fault I just wanted hard-working players who took marching orders and played killer minutes.

    He's like teflon: everywhere he goes he gets all the credit and avoids all the blame. He has Houston's media wrapped around his little finger, he has mesmerized them with his wit and funny one-liners. Of course, Houston's media sucks donkey balls and is mostly made up of bunch of spineless cowards, but that's another story.
     
    #16 tigermission1, May 6, 2007
    Last edited: May 6, 2007
  17. Queeni

    Queeni Contributing Member

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    Zboy, excellent post.

    If a head coach can not utilize the powers of our two superstars, it's a bad coach. JVG should have gone even earlier. Now Rockets have to take another year or two to re-build, and the window of T-Mac greatness has passed.
     
  18. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    You . . .. you are my hero

    Rocket River
    This bears repeating. . . I wish I could make it my Signature
     
  19. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    WHAT?? Don't hear him with his
    "I just didn't coach well enough because those guys didn't play hard . .its all my fault. . I should have . .coached my players to play smarter and harder. . . its my fault . .. the players should have been coached by me enough to not suck . . . "
    Crap

    Blaming the players by trying to *act* like he taking responsibility crap
    I am sick of hearing it for 4 yrs now . . and i am truly sick of it

    Rocket River
     
  20. Cook1ez

    Cook1ez Member

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    This is probably one of the best posts ever made.
    Graet job. and I just learned so mucyh more of jvg.Thank you Zboy.
     

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