Huh? I don't follow this thinking. If a woman were being attacked by a thug late at night ina secluded area, and she had a concelaed handgun, I am fairly confident that she would use it. And she should! According to the Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey women who resist with a gun are 2.5 times less likely to suffer serious injury than those who do not resist an attack. Now the interesting thing is that those who resist with something other than a gun are MORE likely to suffer a serious injury. So anyway, how does this situation make an attacked woman a "non-law-abiding citizin" if she fires at the attacker? How is this true? If the bad guys have guns then I have no problem with good guys wanting guns as well. And if, as you say, you ban guns only law-breakers will have them, I don't see how you can follow that statement with saying it is a good thing. Armed resistance makes it more likely to escape an incident without serious injury. To me, that's the bottom line. dylan ------------------
I'm not sure what you're trying to say in the first part. Maybe I'm just being more pbtuse than usual today... As for the second part, Doh! I remember him saying that earlier, just slipped my mind completely. My bad. I guess that solves the "am I obtuse or not" debate... dylan ------------------
I just read the part about attacking an armed man with a frying pan and it reminded me of something important that happened to me, nothing more, nothing less. ------------------ The Rockets will be the NBA champions. Believe.
Okay. I wasn't sure whether you were being sarcastic about something or actually sharing with the group. Did it freak you out when you realized he had a pistol in his belt? That'd freak me out, I think. I'd have nightmares about missing him with the crowbar or something... dylan ------------------
mrpaige: Juvenile crime was the policy debate topic my junior year of highschool. The data's a little old, but a few conclusions were generally supported at that time (1997). 1. If you own a gun, and are robbed, YOU are more likely to get hurt/die. 2. The suicide rate for kids is higher in homes with guns. 3. There WAS a statistical survey done by some professor that claimed guns saved a few thousand lives a year due to criminals being deterred by the threat that a given person had a gun. The problem was, the study was conducted by giving a survey to gun owners, which basically asked them: has your gun ever saved your life? Has it ever scared off a prospective criminal? How many times, etc. This survey has a HUGE flaw: if one accepts the data prima facie, then people with guns would be attacked (if they didn't have them) like 500% more often than people who don't own them actually are. They're imagining things. Way too subjective. Societies with fewer guns have fewer deaths. Guns do not have intent, but they do ENABLE and alienate a person from personal violence. Glorificiation of guns makes the problems worse. Ban them, except for guns that may be checked out for hunting... put trackers on them. ------------------ Why is it that everytime BC defeats a major conference opponent, that opponent promptly goes on a losing streak? PS. Notre Dame sucks
In a society that grows more violent with each passing year I can see the reason behind owning a gun for protection. The chances that a firearm will solely be used "in case of emergency" and properly are laughable though. I myself cannot find a purpose a gun could have in my life, and strongly oppose them. However I am for freedom, and if a person wishes to own a firearm so be it. Granted our civilization would be better off without widespread distribution of arms, but thats life. ------------------ Ceo of the Walt Williams and Lisa Malosky fan club. atheistalliance.org
I didn't really get nightmares, but for a few months afterwards whenever I'd think about it I would shake uncontrollably. Its not a good memory, just something incredibly stupid I did when I was younger. ------------------ The Rockets will be the NBA champions. Believe. [This message has been edited by Puedlfor (edited February 27, 2001).]
The right to bare arms was put into the constitution to protect against an oppressive government. It was so a militia could be brought to overthrow that government if it got too unruly or out of hand. Now, that was over 200 years ago, and as a practical matter, no current militia could overthrow our government. Therefore, guns have NO REAL PURPOSE in an ordered society. England banned guns, and they no longer have very many gun related deaths. In a country with roughly 1/5 the population of the US, they had about 40 deaths by gun in the UK last year, now in America, where guns are FAR too readily available, we had over 22,000 deaths. Ask yourself one simple question, and be true with your answer. If guns were less available would more lives be spared? The answer is an overwhelming...YES !!! It is time to use common sense, and get some serious gun controls in place; though in my 36 years of existance, I have found that there is nothing common about sense. DaDakota [This message has been edited by DaDakota (edited February 27, 2001).]
Puedlfor, thanks for clearing up the UT issue. Sometimes I forget about the potential for confusion. I've personally been robbed 3 times, including one hilarious (it wasn't funny at the time) "box cutter" incident. I used to live in a neighborhood where you might wake up w/ a Church's Fried Chicken bag lying in your car seat w/ a cinder block in it. In each uncomfortable situation, I've either talked my way out of it, or merely ran like hell. Granted the times that my safety was violated I probably had the right to terminate the aggressor's life. However, I don't want to deal w/ a gun being in my house the other 99.999999% of the time that the gun would be in my possession. But I guess that's my choice. I don't want to have to live in fear, so I don't have a gun. ------------------
Heres my 2 cents.. Hey I've been mugged twice WITHOUT guns! Geeez I hate violence! Geeez I hate getting mugged! Nope, its the violent people definitely the violent people not the guns that skrew it all up for us fun lovin' gun handlers. ------------------ Whatever you want to do, you have to do something else first. [This message has been edited by mr_oily (edited February 28, 2001).]
Jesuz Chrise, I musta missed this thread..Ahhhhhh!!! ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing!
All I know is that the 2nd Amendment is the second amendment...I will absolutely support any organization that keeps my guns to myself. It is my GOD-given right to bear arms. Do you think our forefathers are freaking stupid. Do you realize Australia's gun violence has gone up since their governmental restrictions...Do the research!!! If you want my guns, you are going to have to take them from me...but make no mistake that it will cost you your very life. Are you willing to do that? Just to benefit the pansie arse demos who believe in no guns, let me shove something in your face: 1. Against Invasion/ or Extreme Tyrannical Rebuttal 2. Self-defense 3. Hunting Every home should have at the very least 6 guns in the home: 1. Assault rifle: ex. SKS, M1-Garand, Ruger mini-14 2. Sniping rifle: ex. Winchester model 70 in 7mm rem. mag or .300 magnum 3. 12 Guage shotgun: ex. Winchester defender 4. .22 rifle: ex. Remington model 597 5. .22 handgun: ex. Browning .22 6. 9mm or .40 caliber hangun: ex. Baretta semiauto. I guess some of you might say,: "I understand defense and hunting but what are you talking about the tyrannical/ invasion crap". Well, let me tell you a story about 18 million people from Europe who likely thought the same, but probably would rather have died with their cold hands on a trigger... It could happen again kids. Are you prepared? ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing!
www.nra.com www.springfieldarmory.com www.cheaperthandirt.com www.armalite.com www.rockriverarms.com www.remington.com etc., etc., etc., etc. .... Vote Freedom First! ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing! [This message has been edited by ROXRAN (edited February 27, 2001).]
"WE CAN...WE WILL...WE MUST!" - Franklin D. Roosevelt ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing!
1) Take in account 150 years ago. Nearly everyone had a gun. EVERYONE respected a gun. They didn't have these pansy little kids who went around shooting eachother. They had parents who discipled them, including how to use a gun. We live in this pansy world where everyone crowds together like a flock of sheep. When the first shot of a gun goes off and a bullet is fired, we all scream, "Ohhh take that loud, noisy thing away from them. That scares me. Put him in jail." Hell, if we went back to the old days, half the crowd would turn and shoot back. If he survived, they ould string his ass up. Of course our current militia can not overthrough our government ... we keep taking their weopons away. And no, im not supporting everyone lugging around a M16, although i guarentee you we would live in a much better world and we would have all this bull crap going on. Its pretty simple; (yes, population control) Those who can not keep their fingers off the trigger will weed themselves out pretty quick. (It will eventually happen anyways, except now we just prolong it) I know im being a bit right winged here, but im tired of all this, 'everyone has a right' crap and all we are doing is letting the government control more and more of our life. ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
A few things : 1) Don't bring God into this, please. 2) This isn't 1850, the country is vastly different than it was 150 years ago. This country is vastly better off than it was 150 years ago. 3) There is nothing respectable about a gun. 4) Because you choose not to own a gun doesn't make you a pansy. Your manhood is not contingent upon the owning and operation of a firearm. ------------------ The Rockets will be the NBA champions. Believe.
Well gee, I'm glad that we have defined the two extremes of the viewpoint. Are there any normal people that advocate gun ownership? I'd hate to think that all gun toters thought like you two, Roxran and Space Ghost... it makes me too comfortable in my beliefs. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Achebe (edited February 27, 2001).]
I believe it was the gun owners who were called "pansies" in this thread. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
mrpaige, I used it first, but the gun owners tried to take the tough guy pedestal back away from me. I still don't live in fear though and carry guns, you pansies... and I have been robbed. <font size="-10" color="#003366" face="Verdana">just kidding about the 'pansy' bit</font> ------------------ [This message has been edited by Achebe (edited February 27, 2001).]
The right to keep and bear arms is as fundamental a right to some as the freedom of speech is to others. It's part of our history and culture. If we're worried about people dying unnecessarily, instead of banning guns I think we should ban fatty foods. A lot more irresponsible eaters die every year than gun shot victims. ------------------ "Relax... kids swallow quarters all the time. If she craps out two dimes and a nickel then start worrying!" -Grumpier Old Men