They would know that wine wouldn't get you sick as much but they wouldn't know why. http://www.museum.upenn.edu/new/exhibits/online_exhibits/wine/wineintro.html Fermented beverages have been preferred over water throughout the ages: they are safer, provide psychotropic effects, and are more nutritious. Some have even said alcohol was the primary agent for the development of Western civilization, since more healthy individuals (even if inebriated much of the time) lived longer and had greater reproductive success. When humans became "civilized," fermented beverages were right at the top of the list for other reasons as well: conspicuous display (the earliest Neolithic wine, which might be dubbed "Chateau Hajji Firuz," was like showing off a bottle of Pétrus today); a social lubricant (early cities were even more congested than those of today); economy (the grapevine and wine tend to take over cultures, whether Greece, Italy, Spain, or California); trade and cross-cultural interactions (special wine-drinking ceremonies and drinking vessels set the stage for the broader exchange of ideas and technologies between cultures); and religion (wine is right at the center of Christianity and Judaism; Islam also had its "Bacchic" poets like Omar Khayyam). Whatever the reason, we continue to live out our past civilization by drinking wine made from a plant that has its origins in the ancient Near East. Your next bottle may not be a 7000 year old vintage from Hajji Firuz, but the grape remains ever popular—cloned over and over again from those ancient beginnings. Ever hear of Saint Arnold? I bet you have. "He is said to have spent his life warning peasants about the health hazards of drinking water. Water was not necessarily safe to drink during the dark ages, especially around towns and villages. Nasty stuff. Arnold always had the well-being of his followers close at heart. Beer, on the other hand, was quite safe. Arnold frequently pointed this out to his congregation. He is credited with having once said, "From man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world." It goes without saying that the people loved and revered Arnold." http://www.beerchurch.com/saint_arnold.htm
They're not but and I wasn't saying they were which is why I modified Churchill's statement. I actually agree with you but to make that work that would take a change in the mindset of not only most Americans but most of the people in the world. I just don't think we as humans have outgrown selfish individualism and for any economic system to work we need to harness that rather than try to suppress it. Eventually we as humans may come to a point like Star Trek where we outgrow a capitalistic economy and everyones needs are provided for but people are still willing to work hard, innovate and take risks because its the right thing and not for a monetary reward. I think we're a long way from there.
A took a look at the link and it sounds interesting. What I'm wondering is how does the Pareto Efficiency take into account innovations that would lead to capital formation? It seems to me that if someone can create an innovation that would lead to a Pareto optimization in a market economy because they've created new capital that they accrue without making it worse for anyone else. I think I see where you're getting at a Pareto efficiency with a libertarian social government but I think you're discounting the desire to innovate and create more capital under a deregulated system. To bring it back to this thread greed need not be a zero sum system but one where entrepeneurs motivated by greed can continue to create more capital.
Yes I would call it 'greed' also if Jesus had a self serving motive instead of self giving motive, He wants them all to benefit- instead of Himself. He gave to save. (but I get your drift) And yes he doesn't want to share at all- He is definately a Jealous God. But not greedy. Exodus 20:4-6 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Great input, thanks
Which has always made me wonder. If God is all powerful and there is only one god why should God be jealous?
i think it's a translation problem. i'm not sure there's a good English word for what's intended. i've asked that question before of pastors and people who've studied Greek and Hebrew. i can tell you that Jews and Christians alike believe that God seeks man's love. there are some hilarious texts in Isaiah where you can hear sarcasm coming from God saying, "why are you coming to me with your problems? why not ask that wooden thing you carved to help you out?"
It is not the jealousy you would think- the human insecurity jealousy. Looking at that scripture in Exodus 20:4-6 (previous quoted) you see that God is stating that in the Ten Commandments. So He is explaining how He responds to false (idol) worship. He is making a point to His people. (that is important) It is because He is the One, All-powerful God that He forbids idolatry. To be more specific- He is jealous for His people. The same way you would be jealous for YOUR wife- for her protection from evil men. He is warning them not to turn away from Him to any other worship. To be more concise- He knows idolatry will damage His people. So He is thinking of their good, not defending His own honor. The other peoples of the world at that time worshipped the sun, moon, animals etc. things that are no gods and cannot answer a man's need or offer any help to anyone. Here God is speaking so they understand- the idea is clear- 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. It's a warning. Clear as Mud.
Just want to add if anyone has the right to defend their own honor and name it is God. His honor is perfect and deserving.
Unless capitalism is a perpetual machine, limited resources will create stark inequities of wealth inside the system.... Innovation is only one facet of competition. Like what I wrote before....who really benefits from the cut-throat competition needed to sustain capitalism? Concerning Pareto, when people ask why horrible service companies like AOL became so dominant, it's because new markets acted similarly to deregulated systems and luck had a great influence and staying power for these companies. You might find this page interesting. http://www.shirky.com/writings/powerlaw_weblog.html The author compared the popularity of blogs to power law distributions since weblogs had the least regulation or legacy attachments. It doesn't prove anything, but it's great for showing what I'm getting at....
D@mn you Invisible Fan and your thoughtful insightful and penetrating comments! I actually have to read and think about your posts before I respond. Can't you post something like: "Sure stupid liberals like you are just blinded by your hatred of Bush." That would make it much easier to respond.
