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Greed

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MR. MEOWGI, Nov 28, 2005.

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  1. rhester

    rhester Member

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    I didn't mean that it didn't bring happiness.
    It does.

    I mean that making personal happiness in our own point of reference can result in the same selfishness that Christian want to leave.

    That is why we are told to deny ourselves and take up our cross and follow Christ.

    It is first important for a Christian to trust God, do His will and if happiness results fine.

    If not, then as Paul said I have learned to be content.

    If God is pleased I am fine.

    If I am happy but God is not pleased I am not fine.

    Sorry if I keep confusing this -

    I am not giving enough thought to my posts today.

    My illustrations don't seem as appropriate when I go back and read them a second time. :)
     
  2. rhester

    rhester Member

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    :D :D :D
    Ha! I am so full of myself, as if I ever give my posts enough thought and like they are really important.

    I love D&D

    I repent of stealing my Company's time - back to work.
     
  3. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    and who told you all that??? you??? :) you make absolute statements based on what you believe merely because you believe it..with you as the source. but then scoff at those who have a source other than you...or who disagree with you on it. do you see the intellectual dishonesty with that?

    if the ultimate arbitrer of all truth is you...then there's really no point discussing it. one either shares your opinion or they don't. but you're the only source that matters in that analysis. and that doesn't feed a conversation for very long.

    as for what i believe..i believe sin is separation from God. the symptoms of sin are things like what we call the seven deadly sins...lust, greed, gluttony, etc. in my view, those are symptoms of sin...we call them sins...but they are symptoms of something greater.

    i certainly don't believe that feeding every primal urge is what God calls us to.

    of course, i get my views from a guy who walked around 2000 years ago claiming to be the Son of God, so I could be waayyyyy off.
     
  4. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Actually you got your views from a book about this guy that was written basically 1400 years after he lived, but whatever !

    :)

    By the way, I am not saying greed makes you happy, in fact, I think Greed begets greed.

    I am simply saying that it is human nature to try to horde things for your family, or clan, or gaggle, whatever type of creature you are....

    As for absolutes, that is the way you are reading my statements, I can only say what I believe in, I am not saying it is right for anyone else, but just what I think.

    Heck, I have been wrong...I thought Dan Langhi was going to be a player...

    :)

    DD
     
  5. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    actually the gospel of Mark, Matthew and Luke were written in the 1st century. all were contemporaries of Christ. John was a contemporary of Christ as well, but there's some thought that perhaps the Gospel of John was written at the very beginning of the second century. but there are passion narratives that pre-date the Gospels that are dated to around 30 A.D.

    you realize the Bible is a collection of books and letters, right? are you saying the Book of Job was written in 1400? please tell me you're not saying that. it's simply incorrect to say, "this book was written in 1400." it's not one book, one author. and none of the writings are ascribed to be later than the 2nd century.
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    No no, I concede that most of the Bible is based upon translations from books, poems and letters of earlier text.

    I was actually mistaken about the date of the King James Bible it was commissioned in 1607.

    King James Bible

    However, the bible is far from complete, and it's the editing and translations of the text that make it subject to doubt.

    Not to mention the many books that were left out of the bible because it did not fit into the church's views at the time.

    Books left out for various reasons

    Also the Dead Sea Scrolls were left out too

    As for the original topic, I can not say whether greed is good or bad, I simply believe it is natural....

    DD
     
    #86 DaDakota, Nov 30, 2005
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2005
  7. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Accumulation of wealth and Greed are two different things
    People seem to confuse these two

    Greed is the hording of wealth in such a way as to have a negative impact IMO

    ENRON that was greed. . they f*ck those people out of their money
    CON MEN - Greed
    ROBBERS and THEIVES - Greed

    Bill Gates - that is the accumultion of wealth.
    Mike Jordan - Accumulation of Wealth
    Oprah - Accumulation of Wealth

    I think WORK is a component of wealth accumulation as well as a Ethical System
    Greed lacks an Ethical System . . and alot of time minimal work


    Two totally different things

    Rocket River
     
  8. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    the bible has been slanted and rewritten to serve a purpose
    I beleice in the bible. . but not literally and not totally
    there are parts I feel were . . uhm .. mistranslated in a way
    to serve the Elite and make the underclass satisfied with their lot in life
    with the promise of eternal bliss

    then again . .it may not be the bible itself but they way folx interpret them

    Rocket River
     
  9. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    I don't even read the King James Bible!!! :D It was a fancy translation designed to be poetic with ornate language as a translation. It's the documents its seeks to translate that I call the Bible. There are various translations of that. But it's not as if the butler did it in one translation, and didn't in the other. It's extremely misleading to say the bible was written in 1400. One translation was done in 1400. I have a friend who is working on a translation right now in 2005. There are different ways one can translate. You can literally go word for word....or you can back up and view the big picture and translate the story...try to tell the story better than just going word by word. I've never attempted that sort of work, so I can't speak to which was is better.

    Do you know what the Dead Sea Scrolls even are??? They're largely Bible study notes...notes from a group of Jews who went into hiding during Roman occupation. Among the Dead Sea Scrolls are direct transcriptions of the book of Isaiah, for example. Those scrolls' translation of Isaiah match word for word the translation that's in a Bible today.

    Even when I read the books that WERE NOT included in the Bible...it's not like the story changes entirely. There's disagreement about whether Jesus was flesh or not. But the whole coming to save humanity from the sins of the world...the general theme is no different. The primary reason they chose the books they did is because they were ones that were used not just in one church...but were ones used in many different churches. Another reason was to choose books that were dated closer to the events.

    You know, you might wanna read these things first. Before you make decisions about them. ;)
     
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Here's a site with 25 points on the Dead Sea Scrolls which you might find interesting....

    http://www.centuryone.com/25dssfacts.html

    #25 is -- The Dead Sea Scrolls enhance our knowledge of both Judaism and Christianity. They represent a non-rabbinic form of Judaism and provide a wealth of comparative material for New Testament scholars, including many important parallels to the Jesus movement. They show Christianity to be rooted in Judaism and have been called the evolutionary link between the two.
     
  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Max,

    Fair play in your beliefs, but nothing that you have said tells me that the Bible is not:

    A. Manipulated by the church
    B. Written by man
    C. Composed of embelished stories.

    I think Jesus lived and died, but was he the son of God, and did he rise from the dead.....sorry, you lose me there.

    DD
     
  12. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    but something i have said should convince you it wasn't written in 1400! and maybe a little something about the Dead Sea Scrolls, as well! :)

    i hear ya. ultimately it comes down to faith.

    but i have to ask...on the "it's a primal urge..so it's of God..so it must be good" thing. have you thought about that in other areas? think your wife would buy that one if you cheated on her. "well...i just had this primal urge to be with that woman. and, well...you know those come from God, honey. and i'm not gonna argue with God!"

    or this one..."man, that guy really pissed me off. and i felt this incredible urge to shoot him. to see him dead. so i did it. that's how God tells me to do things, after all."
     
  13. OldManBernie

    OldManBernie Old Fogey

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    While I'm not a man of god, I do believe in the rationality of men. I believe that primal urges that lead to negative effects can be countered by rational thinking.

    When the man is met with the "primal urge" to s**** another woman, he has to decide what he wants more... his relationship with his wife or his primal urge. If he decides on the primal urge, then perhaps it was never a good marriage in the first place.

    As far as the killing of a man that pisses you off, it is up to the man's rationality to decide whether the consequences of his action (another man dying, criminal incarceration or execution, family that is affected) are worth it.

    These thoughts occur millions of times a day in our world, but I think people do a good job overall in curbing their primal urges.
     
  14. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    i agree.

    the supposition was...greed is a primal urge...primal urges are from God...so it really can't be that bad.

    i used these examples to refute that notion.
     
  15. OldManBernie

    OldManBernie Old Fogey

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    I have to disagree here... Greed is a primal urge... Primal urges are from our creator and it isn't bad.

    Greed gives us instinct to protect ourselves not only in the short term but for the long term as well. Sometimes, we have to hoard our resources so we can survive and our family can survive.

    You have to balance that out with the rational thinking humans are given. Rational thinking balances out with our greed to give us our response to each circumstances.

    Greed isn't a bad thing... it's our defense mechanism and in many cases, it has helped each and everyone survive.
     
  16. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    only because the rest of us are all greedy. because we all have to "get ours" because no one else is gonna take care of you. if we lived a life of being concerned more with others than ourselves, this wouldn't be necessary.

    i don't believe greed is God-given. if your needs were taken care of as a child...and were to be taken care of...and people could be trusted to keep their word...you wouldn't need it. it's because we fail to live to be what we can be that it exists at all. just my 2 cents.
     
  17. rrj_gamz

    rrj_gamz Member

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    Greed is good...
     
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Max,

    I did not say it was good, just that it was natural.

    I think that we all have a barometer in ourselves that tells us right from wrong, and that was put there by god.

    I only said that I think Greed, or hording is natural, clearly too much can be really bad, and certainly does not lead to true happiness.

    DD
     
  19. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    It's a catch-22, and since we all aren't mind readers, no one is willing to take that first step to live that way to the point where that person earns the trust of everyone around him.

    If there was such a person with overwhelming love, there are many who think that that person and the actions he performed is inhuman even if that person carried it out in human form. So the admirering observer, while carrying that overwhelming response of personal survival, rationalizes that though they can't totally live like that all loving person who performed inhuman feats, they will live in his example that will fit their personal views.

    Hypothetically speaking....

    I don't think anyone would disagree with that, but ironically no one is willing to act it consistently. For some, it would carry the attachment of overwhelming helplessness. For others, some would think they are doing enough and to the best of their abilities. Then there are those who believe that life shouldn't be about handouts or free rides.

    These are different people with different perspectives and different intentions, yet take away the personal insights and they'd appear to act greedy.
     
  20. OldManBernie

    OldManBernie Old Fogey

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    Well there's idealism and there's reality. I wish I live in a world like that and I'd be more than happy to accomodate if that was the case. Or maybe I'd the jackass and take advantage of the situation. hmmm... I don't know.

    If god didn't create greed, then somebody sure did. If greed did not exist, would the ten commandments need to stipulate it as a sin to deter people away from it. I'm not a religious man, but maybe it's created so people can be tested in this world and see whether he/she is deserving for the better afterlife.
     

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