Well I can certainly agree with that. OUr country should auction off some of its war arsenal so that we don't have to lay off teachers.
There is nothing wrong with that and I have defended the rights of unions and other groups to organize. On the other hand though what we are seeing in Greece is more than just people marching for higher wages. Were seeing property destroyed and violence. I suppose though in your mind that is fine as long as the proletariot is doing it. Need I remind you that "class warfare" was your term and not mine. Also as other posters have noted what these people are fighting for isn't necessarily in the interests of the country as a whole and has contributed to Greece's problems. As opposed to the self-righteousness and simplicity of the extremists? Yes how simple. Lets deflate the currency massively, lets spend remorsely, lets blame our problems on international cabals of Goldman Sachs, the IMF and Germans, (lets not forget the American imperialist too.)
Fair doctrines of what? Greece by most standards already has a good social safety net. In fact the problem with Greece is that hey can't pay for the social safety net. This isn't a case of the petty bourgeios supressing Les Miserables. The problem I see with Greece isn't a matter of class but a matter that their society as a whole has failed. They have failed to be productive and pay their state. Calling for class warfare and painting this in some romantic hues of the oppressed proletariot rising up ignores the nature of the problem. It becomes a distraction from doing what is necessary to solve this situation since any solution will affect every Greek be they rich, poor or middle class.
It is certainly a matter of class. Structurally, Greece has been set up to serve the wealthy folks - for taxes, pension, etc. Now that these structural problems have cause an enormous problem, the solution being proposed is to intensify what's in place already to be able to go back to what they were doing as soon as possible. That is a terrible idea. There are tons of couples in Greece who can't afford to bribe the taxpayer. There are tons who do NOT work in the government. There are those who oppose the government. The only blame the Greek people should take is that they fell for the deception. I feel that you're blaming the Greek people by painting them with a brush which should only be used on a small portion of the Greek population.
Major Please tell me you are kidding about the banks. Are you in upper upper management at one? The Wall Streeter major players made millions and millions knowingly thorugh fraud and are being bailed out by your and my money. Wow!! The effectiveness of the propaganda of the business press is unnerving.
"Romantic" Never seen you so worked up about a political issue so much before. Contentment over the Goldman Sachs fniancier crowd; no emotion/contentment over Bush -Cheney and all their various assaults on American values, but such a lack of contentment over some ordinary Greeks and a few radicals/ trouble makers protesting. Telling. It sort of reminds me of how many poor Americans are incensed if they think their neighbor gets food stamps for awhile when they could work, but are oblivious to the massive transfer of wealth and from the middle class to Aemrica's uipper class during the Reagan-Bush years.
Quoted for truth. Hey these guys are just believing lock stock and barrel the story from the conservative business press that caters to the fiancial status quo of their owners.
The banks were required to pay credit-card style interest rates for their bailout money - they paid about 20-25% on average. Their owners (the shareholders) lost a ton of value. And within a few months, they will be facing significant new restrictions to their business models. So yes, the banks paid heavily for their bailouts. The employees of the banks certainly didn't, and that's a different issue. But the institutions themselves and the owners of those institutions paid a significant price. And no, they aren't being bailed out by your or my money. You need to get your facts straight - you're just repeating the tea party nonsense of fearing the banks. The taxpayers made a profit on the bailouts of the banks - so they paid us for the rescue. Where the taxpayers currently have outstanding losses are AIG (not a bank - supposedly will be paid in full), Fannie & Freddie (gov't institutions, not banks), and the car companies. Bottom line - the bailouts benefited the taxpayers, the banks, and the economy as a whole, at little to no cost to the taxpayer. And that was the point - I know you're obsessed with punishment, but your government is obsessed with getting the economy back running properly. Your punishment-oriented solutions are populist in nature and hurt most the very people you supposedly want to help - the middle and lower classes. The solutions implemented that you hate do the exact opposite. It's funny to see your knowledge of economics consistently lead you to solutions that are counter your supposed goals.
From that crazy corporatist Talking Point Memo: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...ed_bailout_be_more_like_a_stunnin.php?ref=fpb Bailout: Best Program Evaaah? But now, 19 months after Congress voted to spend $700 billion on the Troubled Asset Relief Program, we're starting to get a long-term sense of the effort's true cost, and its effect. And when you look at the amount of money that the government now stands to make back -- not to mention the widespread expert view that the bailout succeeded in its prime purpose of stabilizing the economy -- it could just be that we've been able to rescue our economy from the brink of a depression for a relatively low price. And so, an unlikely question arises: Was the bailout, far from being a disastrous, dishonest failure, really more like one of the most successful programs ever? (more details in the link)
Missing from this thread is the other half of Greece's deficit problems, the fact that its taxpayers are among the worst tax cheats around. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/world/europe/02evasion.html See above. It's not really bribery - it's the fact that people, rich and poor are able to keep transactions off the books. But to the extent bribery is required, it works out to be cheaper anyway:
Sam, welcome to the thread. I do think that we have talked about their tax cheating. Care to weigh in on whether the Greeks are just a bunch of lazy no goods who should just patiently accept whatever the central bankers propose.
If Sam possesses any of the knowledge on economics he hypes up himself to have, he would annihilate all your ridiculous posts in this thread, glynch, and then call you some names while pointing out your understanding of economics is the equivalent of a high school senior scoring 2 on their AP Macro test. But since you lean the same way on the political spectrum, I suspect this won't happen.
How did they not get a sweet heart deal. They got a ton of bailout money, and they got 0% interest rates to work with.
He has a coffee shop on South Congress in Austin. Major isn't "captured by the banks," at least to my knowledge!
The 0% Fed rates are unrelated to the bailout. The banks had to pay back that bailout money at 20-25% interest rates. If you're having financial issues and I give you a 25% interest credit card to get yourself out of it, do you consider yourself as having gotten a sweetheart deal? And that's ignoring the new regulations and the wealth destruction for the shareholders.
