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Great news on the Israeli-Palestinian front..

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Mathloom, Dec 13, 2010.

  1. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    Seems they can't agree anything and more pressure is going to be put on them to come to an agreement. IMO it is a great outcome for someone. Israeli or Palestinian, to appear unhelpful in this process because it provides justification to the international community to place more pressure on that specific side. Ultimately, it is a game of running out of chances. At some point, both sides will run out and something will have to happen.

    In this specific case, this breakdown in talks is an important milestone because everything constructed from this date onwards has been very precisely documented as having taken place during/after attempts at direct talks.

     
  2. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    I think..it's wishful thinking.

    Arafat turned down Clinton in 2000...not much came of it. Plenty of Israeli PM's ignored threats from the US/UN/everyone else for the last 40 years in regards to the occupation. Rabin was as close as it got, and even he is often presented as years go by as much more dovish than he really was.

    No intermediary or foreign power really has that much influence on whether or not there is going to be peace here. Even Carter's Camp David Accords happened because Sadat and Begin were willing to work something out. Both Bibi and Abu Mazen are politically weak & aren't willing to risk alienating their base (or opposition) by making peace and nothing Obama or Clinton say (or offer, or threaten) will suddenly cause Israel to produce a map with borders that the PA will agree to.

    Expect to hear how this is going to be the year of peace and watch nothing happen except for more building in the Territories. No one wants peace...they just want to keep saying what they need to keep the money and goodwill flowing in.

    If Tzipi Livni was a strong enough leader to actually be a real opposition to Netanyahu, she could be building public support for negotiations, but even she knows that coming out firmly in support of anything concrete (like a final negotiation of borders) could damage her future as a PM with the fractured Israeli electorate.

    Hamas, if we are to believe the Qatari opinion in wikileaks, would support peace with Israel in a future Palestinian state, but knows that ever saying it would be political suicide. Rattling the saber is all they really have...but it sure scores PR points. Supporting peace might make the editorial staff of the NY Times and Guardian happy...but those aren't the folks feeding Hamas.

    In short, people want to keep their jobs, and a real peace settlement would require someone in power to actually support it. That matters more than the influence of any foreign leader here, and you'd be hard pressed to find a plurality willing to risk their political capital to get it.
     
  3. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave Contributing Member

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    I like your enthusiasm, and would like to share in it, but I think all of that has happened before. How is it different this time?
     
  4. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    Hamas doesn't want peace. The Israelis won't leave the West Bank. The Palestianan Authority wants the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Likuds won't leave until Hamas stops firing rockets. Hamas won't stop firing rockets until Israel is gone. Palestinan Authority and Hamas don't get along and don't hold the same views. Until that happens, there can't be a unified Palestine. And if there's no unified Palestine, Israel won't negotiate.
     
  5. Rocketman1981

    Rocketman1981 Member

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    Exactly why the United States of America doesn't need to be supporting one side or the other. There is no solution when it comes to religious zealots on both sides.
     
  6. R0ckets03

    R0ckets03 Contributing Member

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    Part of me wants to say why are we even getting involved in this? Let them kill each other and lets stay out of it. Not our problem.
     
  7. dback816

    dback816 Member

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    Haven't you heard? Because our media and economy are completely in the hands of the Jewish population.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    There isn't enough exhaustion yet on both sides to reach an agreement. It may take something hugely catastrophic to happen. :(
     
  9. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    I'm not saying anything is close honestly, all I'm saying is that the leash is getting shorter for both sides and that's a good thing.

    The nature of this conflict is such that both sides keep making excuses to evade negotiations and soon all excuses will be used up or just too old.

    I think there will be a Palestinian state withing the next 5 years. However, if it doesn't happen during Obama's time in office, then I think it will take almost 20 years.

    I was never really under the impression that this thing will be done in a year or two.
     
  10. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    So where are the "great news" we were promised to make us click on this thread? :confused:
     
  11. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave Contributing Member

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    Interesting. I hope you're right, but I'm taking the over... on 5 or 20.
     
  12. s land balla

    s land balla Contributing Member

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    West Bank civilian dies in Israeli army raid in Hebron

    Israeli troops have shot dead a 67-year-old Palestinian man by mistake in an operation to arrest members of the Islamist militant organisation, Hamas.

    The pre-dawn raid happened in Hebron, in the West Bank, a day after six supporters of Hamas had been released from jail by the Palestinian Authority.

    The man who died was a neighbour of one of the Hamas men.

    Hamas has said it holds the Palestinian Authority and Israel responsible.

    Reports from the scene of the shooting said it took place in a bedroom on the building's first floor.

    The Reuters news agency has reported that the man, Amr Qawasme, was shot and killed in his bed when soldiers broke into his home before dawn.

    His wife, Sobheye, said she heard several shots fired and later saw her husband lying in a pool of blood.

    "I was praying when they entered. I do not know how they opened the door. They put their hand to my mouth and a rifle to my head," she told Reuters.

    "I was shocked. They did not allow me to talk. I asked them, "What did you do?" They asked me to shut up."


    The IDF said in a statement: "A Palestinian man who was present in one of the terrorist's homes was killed. The IDF regrets the outcome of the incident." The army has ordered an investigation.

    Reports say Israeli forces carried out a number of raids across the city, rounding up five men.

    On Thursday Palestinian Authority President Mahmud Abbas ordered the release of six Hamas prisoners who had been on hunger strike. Five were being held in a Hebron jail, while the sixth was imprisoned in Bethlehem.

    The Palestinian Authority exercises limited control over parts of the West Bank. The territory is under overall Israeli security control.

    Israel has occupied the West Bank since 1967, settling close to 500,000 Jews in more than 100 settlements. There are about 2.5 million Palestinians living in the West Bank.

    [​IMG]

    So the BBC is reporting that the man "was a neighbour of one of the Hamas men," whereas the official statement by the IDF is that "a Palestinian man who was present in one of the terrorist's homes was killed." :confused:
     
  13. trustme

    trustme Member

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    Everyone knows nothing is going to come of this.

    I bet these blood thirsty "soldiers" wanted at least one kill during their efforts.
     
  14. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    I'm not judging the veracity of either side's claims, but sadly, many here and abroad would not accept the truth, either way. Trustme.

    Accident? No way.
    Murder? No way.
     
  15. Hydhypedplaya

    Hydhypedplaya Member

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    Extrajudicial? Definitely.

    If they were going to arrest Hamas members, then why wasn't this guy arrested? The picture shows he was shot in the head while lying in bed.

    Are sleeping guys too difficult to arrest for the IDF?
     
  16. trustme

    trustme Member

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    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/2011198260555362.html

    *smh*
     
  17. trustme

    trustme Member

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    http://arabnews.com/middleeast/article234756.ece

    This is definitely not helping their situation. It really doesn't seem like Israel wants peace. I hope Palestine can get as many nations as possible to recognize it as a state.
     
  18. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    What's wrong with turning into a place of prayer for all?

    Are Muslims not allowed to go there?
     
  19. trustme

    trustme Member

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    There is no doubt in my mind that Israel wants that land all to themselves. They definitely want to completely destroy Al-Aqsa and build their own little thing on it. I'm 100% positive Israel has no intention on making it a prayer place for all. This isn't a conspiracy theory, it's taking place in front of our eyes.
     
  20. Hydhypedplaya

    Hydhypedplaya Member

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    No, it's the fact that they are undergoing construction to an area that is occupied and listed as a 'World Heritage Site in Danger'. It's the fact that Israel has no right under international law to change the status quo of the occupied territories. And yet, it's been happening since 1967.
     

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