Grantland: The curse of the QB middle class (Houston repeatedly mentioned)

My love for this entire post is very erect...

Yeah, let me be clear: He lost me as well. I don't think the situation is hopeless, by any means (they'll win 10+ games, be in the playoffs, etc.) - but until further notice, he's dead to me.

I'll continue to argue he's the best alternative we have; I'll fight when stupid craches into hyperbole; and I'm going to avoid acting *too* entitled with a team that won 57 games (no playoffs) in 9 years before winning 24 games (including playoffs) over the last two. But these final six weeks were cold and harsh and I disliked them intensely.

 

One down . One to go..........

 

Perfect timing for another round of "athletic QBs are the future" when Peyton Manning just had a incredible season and Tom Brady is taking sole possession of most postseason records.

The league will always pocket-passer heavy.

The Texans problem is that Matt Schaub is not an elite QB. His decision making down the stretch is very shaky and it shows every time Kubiak opts for a field-goal instead. We can only work with what we have - a upper-mid tier QB.

 

What we saw at the end of the season isn't even upper-mid tier. At this point we're hoping that our 32 year old pocket passer isn't closer to that reality than what he was a couple of years ago. Not very confidence inspiring. All we got is hope.

(the mantra of Houston sports!)


And Manning and Brady are among the best of all time. We don't necessarily have to get that from our QB play. (And Manning lost too).


Really, 'fast, athletic' doesn't have to mean we run an offense like RGIII does.

It just means athletic and mobile enough to make a play with his legs if necessary, or athletic and mobile enough to improvise when the pocket breaks down. I'd be happy with just that.

 

You go with Schaub until something better comes along, like the 49ers did with Smith.

That being said, you acknowledge that something better needs to come along and start planning/drafting with that in mind. Keenum is intriguing.

 

This guy speaks the truth.

We all know Schaub is the defacto QB for next year, barring injury.

If he fails next year, 2014 will probably be his swan song.

Any little reason given to Kubiak to pull him may be utilized, depending on a couple of factors:

1) Who we have waiting behind him

2) Kubiak's contract status (his deal expires in 2014)

 

My concern is Kubes won't even be looking
Even if someone just shows up . . . like the QB version of Arian Foster
he would not get a shot until injury happens.

Rocket River

 

To be fair to Kubes...

-Tom Brady won his job via injury
-Aaron Rodgers was nearly placed in cryogenic stasis waiting for Brett Favre's corpse to GTFO
-Drew Brees fell into the lap of the Saints after injury
-Kaepernick won his job via injury
-It took the Cowboys 3 full seasons to figure out Romo was their guy (like him or not, Cowboys fans, he is the only reason you've been remotely relevant since 1999)
-The Seahawks blew a ton of money on Flynn

In other words, lots of team make QB mistakes and/or find themselves in good fortune by complete accident.

 

most accurate and honest post of the thread.


the two most important positions in football is our two biggest weakness.

 

Before the last few years, how many fast/athletic QBs *that could throw precisely* were out there? Just this year, we've added 3 (Kaepernick, Wilson, Griffin). Will they survive? Maybe not - but we've also never seen QBs with that running ability and throwing ability combined together. The previous running QBs (Vick, Young, etc) had deficiencies in the throwing game. Now, you have guys who can throw better than the Schaub/Flaccos of the world, AND can run faster than much of the defense. As more of those come up, the average stationary QB will be phased out. There will still be a place for the Brady/Mannings of the world who are simply smarter than everyone else, but there will be no reason to have a Schaub when you can have a Schaub that can run.

It's an evolution that started a long time ago in high school, is now taking over college, and will eventually take over the NFL.

 

A fair and logical post. The truth is not always popular.

 

Fran Tarkenton, John Elway, Randall Cunningham, Steve Young, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Michael Vick...

These guys are not, by any means, "unique" in the history of the NFL. What *is* different is that coaches are now more willing to incorporate them into the running game (as opposed to just scrambling) - and frankly, *that's* exactly why their shelf life could be a major concern.

The other thing to consider - defense almost *always* catch-up to gimmicks. Give a full offseason to 32 (presumably) smart, qualified men (DCs) and they'll find a way to stop/contain it.

 

I don't agree with this. They were a Wes Welker wide open drop away from winning last year, their offense is still capable of winning a superbowl.

 

Michael Vick was mobile, but his throwing was NOT remotely high level (until that one year in Philly - and then he was an MVP candidate). The others mostly scrambled when things broke down - which means their running wasn't really a threat you had to gameplan around. Cunningham might be the best example, because he had several seasons with 80+ rushing attempts. But it doesn't fit the health concern because he held up well.

The difference with the guys now is that they can outrun entire defenses. Steve Young had 1 scramble his entire career for more than 40 yards. McNair had 2. Elway had only one for even 30 yards and maxed out at 304 yards for his career high season. Guys like Kaepernick and RG3 are faster than entire defenses and can break 50+ yard runs - THAT is the element that is relatively new. Those guys in the past did it when the defense broke down and a huge hole was formed. These guys do as part of the play when the defense is actually still looking for it. If Elway tried to run a read option, he'd go 5 yards and get caught from behind. It's a totally different style / capability of runner at QB now.

But they are unique - you pointed to about 6 guys over multiple decades, some of whom are hall of famers as a result of their dual-threat abilities. Now, we have several just in the last 2 years. From a health standpoint, you're right - they have to be smart. But if you watch Kaepernick, you see an understanding of when to slide / how to run. He doesn't take hits on his runs. RG3 and others need to learn to do that, certainly, to stay healthy.

The Shotgun was once considered a gimmick that everyone said wouldn't last in the NFL either. I don't see why anything new and different is a gimmick. The Wildcat makes sense, because you're taking away a threat of throwing to do something unique with blocking. Same with the option because it's a play that takes time to develop, so there's a tradeoff. But all the QB-running game does is add one more element to the game: nothing is being taken away. The play can do everything that any other play can do plus something more. It's not really about a defense simply adjusting as having to account for one more possible outcome.

 

Alot of time . .. Catching up means Hitting the guy extra hard when the opportunity allows for it.
Make them tentative

but then again . . we don't allow defenses to do that much anymore

Rocket River

 

Jesus Christ people was the problem really ALL Schaub??

When your defense gives up 41 points in a playoff game...IS THAT NOT PROBLEM #1?!

Obviously I am not a Schaub fan, most Texans' fans aren't. He is too slow, makes poor decisions, lacks arm strength, etc, etc. These things have been discussed and laid out for years, so I am having trouble figuring out why everyone is seemingly jumping on the "cut/trade Schaub" bandwagon all of a sudden.

He should have NEVER received a contract extension, simple as that. But now that he has that contract, there is nothing that can be done. He WILL be the QB of this team for the very least 1 more season, but almost certainly for the next 2. Beyond that, it is a tough call.

The Texans clearly need to address the need and it would help to draft a young, athletic QB to groom for the future. However, the team does seem enthralled with TJ Yates potential so I am skeptical that this would happen within' the next couple of years, but you never know.

For the Texans to continue to improve and hopefully win the Super Bowl, which is the ultimate goal after all, Schaub will need to learn from his mistakes and we as fans are going to have to hope that he plays better next year and in the playoffs as well. I also think home-field advantage is something this year's team desperately needed to have a legitimate chance, and it is quite possible the scenario is the same next year as well.

For the Texans to be the true SB "contender" that everyone hopes, it'll be up to the coaching staff and GM to have a terrific draft to help fill the glaring holes at LB, nickel corner, the right side of the offensive line (although perhaps experience can fill the void there), and maybe, just MAYBE we can get a competent NT. As you can probably tell, I am not a big fan of Shaun Cody. They need to spend their money wisely (i.e. hopefully NOT re-signing a useless Connor Barwin), and it is critical that we acquire more depth throughout the roster. Improving on special teams couldn't hurt either, although that unit had on of their best days in the dismal playoff loss vs. NE.

Like most, I don't believe Schaub is the answer at QB. IMO he is more of a burden than a weapon. HOWEVER, it was QUITE CLEAR after watching the second half of the regular season, and the playoffs that he was not the only culprit. This defense needs to get better (especially against the "top QB's"), the coaching needs to be better (WADE! I'M LOOKING AT YOU TOO!!!!), and we need our playmakers, our best players, to step up when it matters most.

 

Which side of the ball had the most significant injuries?

Rocket River

 

An elite QB like Peyton Manning means losing in the playoffs unless Rex Grossman is on the other side.

An elite QB is neither necessary nor sufficient.

 

It will also likely lead to more injured QB's... which is why people are skeptical of the shelf-life of this style.

Guys like Wilson and Kapernick are unique because they possess quality arm strength and accuracy... and they can run if needed. In the end, however, their organizations would likely prefer they don't put themselves at risk nearly every play by trying to create yards with their legs.

Who cares... in 10 years, either the NFL will be flag football, or will be deemed too big of a health risk to be allowed. The data that will be coming out on the long-term effects of NFL hits is going to have to lead to more changes.

 

A lot of the worst QB injuries (especially concussions) occur from players being blown up by a sack in the pocket while standing still. Palmer and Brady both missed a full year from leg injuries from sacks while standing still. These new QBs, while they may get hit more running, also can take less hits in the pocket thanks to their escapability (unless they don't learn to slide like RG3). I believe there was a study recently that showed that there was no noticable statistical increase in injury for mobile QBs.