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Grade Rafael Stone

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jim1961, Feb 13, 2024.

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Grade

  1. A

  2. A-

  3. B

  4. B-

  5. C

  6. C-

  7. D

  8. D-

  9. F

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    I think looking at how everything is culminating so perfectly into the summer of 2025 with the flexibility to go over the cap or become a max cap space team AND with the knowledge of who we should keep from a battle-tested young core AND with several picks in the future for when we need a piece or two to push us over the top AND Sheppard is ROY-quality AND we have avoided trading any of the core so far this summer.....

    His favorability has never been higher with me. Probably close to an A. I think some areas he needs to get ahead of:

    - Can we get a better offensive assistant for Udoka? Udoka has underperformed offensively - relative to roster - in both his seasons as head coach in the NBA. I believe he will get better, but some help doesn't hurt.
    - How many of the young guys will pan out? He's dumped 3 already.
    - Don't make any changes till the deadline. So many players are in critical years and we can afford to wait.
    - For the rest of this era, never ever make a risky trade. Only safe trades Danny Ainge style. We should only be seeking an All NBA player not close to retiring.
     
    #241 Mathloom, Jul 18, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2024
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  2. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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  3. Hemingway

    Hemingway Member
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    I don’t think Josh will ever pan out. I think Usman has a chance at a career as well as Tyty. Both are still plenty young enough to find a niche.
     
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  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Morey had to deal with Alexander never being willing to rebuild.

    Then when the rats wanted to leave the ship - he tried to sell TF on a rebuild and TF wasn't having it.

    Stone had developed a strong relationship with TF when he helped him get approval to buy the team.

    That relationship carried over to when Morey left and Stone got the job and sold a rebuild.
     
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  5. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    why hasn't patrick taken over the gm duties?

    unless of course, he's just a figurehead that's there to take the credit/blame while patrick does the real work. in which case, explains all the recent good picks. patrick is a genius.
     
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  6. Francis3422

    Francis3422 Member

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    B+

    I suspect he has hit big on all of those mid firsts (Sengun, Cam, Tari). Acquired or moved up on all those picks via trade.

    I don’t think it’s likely, but there is still a legitimate chance that Green ends up One of the best two players from that class. We will know in seven months.

    Amen was I guess the obvious pick BUT it’s still took some courage considering the overtime elite situation.

    FVV move grand. Brooks can also be defined as a positive if we trade him over the next year without sacrificing value. Nicely setup for 2025, to eventually leverage Phoenix for Booker And we own multiple unprotected assets from different teams.
     
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  7. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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    NBA executives voted on the top front offices in the NBA:

     
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  8. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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  9. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Yeah and then they messed up trading 5 frp for Mikal Bridges. Presti No 1, Celtics no 2, Rox no 3 for me.
     
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  10. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Anybody who doesn't give Stone a B+ or higher for the job they have done just doesn't understand basketball.
     
  11. Plowman

    Plowman Member
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    Admittedly, he's had a blank canvas with a greater margin of error...
    But, it's been great so far.

    Stone aced the Harden trade, and reaped the benefits from a return to the glory hole AKA PHX picks.
    The gift that keeps on giving...

    - Stealing Sengun @16 is obviously a coup of epic proportions...

    - The hiring of Ime is an off the charts move. Though some might subscribe this to "just good timing"...( which of course was A factor), it's been a massive part of the foundation. Not only has a culture been instilled, but Udoka has total game.

    Amen @4, while expected by most is still a great pick, as he's headed towards Superstardom eventually.

    Tari@17 is another theft of hefty proportions, if he can stay healthy.

    Unlike some, I have complete faith in Jabari. He's headed towards 20 & 10 /yr or some facsimile thereof. A long time starter, and defensive anchor down the road.

    Dillon Brooks signing was a success on every level. Culture, leader, performance...contributing to W's. Heended up being worth that contract and more.

    Though I was critical of FVV, he's come in and set Culture, structure, and been a decent player. The contract was always ridiculous, but can be used to procure a star. Strategic team building involved here. A smart move on many levels by Stone.

    Cam @20 is still a steal. Only 20yrs old...He'll be better than fine...contrary to what some might think.

    My two issues with Stone -

    Taking Jalen ..At the time, I wanted Mobley...could have lived with Barnes...but didn't want JG. He's not done much to dissuade me since. There have been and are flashes but no semblance of consistency. I realize he's young, but we've been beyond patient with him. We need to upgrade the spot with a guy that's elite on O and D's up.
    (Booker)
    That contract can definitely be argued, but has redeeming qualities.

    The selection of Reed @3 was and is a problem for me. I feel it was a "safe pick" and in the long run will be at minimum a solid 6th man/starter. Not the guy you want that high though.


    All in all, the Jalen/Reed moves can be smoothed over by player maturation or deals for important pieces.

    Our Rockets are going to have enough to be a contender for many years.

    Stone gets a B+ - A-.

    It's all good.
     
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  12. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    It boils down to you want Sengun and Jalen or Mobley, Cam Johnson and 3 second rounders?

    You can't have Sengun and Mobley because if we picked Mobley no way in hell do we pick Sengun. We got Garuba locked in the 20s, we got Cousins and we got Christian Wood. So with Mobley thats 4 big men, you expect the Rockets to enter camp with 5 centers? lol

    My guess is if we went with Mobley we wouldn't trade with OKC, they pick Sengun and we get a guard like Cam Johnson and Usman Garuba. We also keep the 3 second rounders we used to get Sengun.

    Personally I rather have Sengun and Jalen, along with Jabari and Amen etc
     
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  13. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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  14. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Member

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    this is a really thoughtful and thorough post. A few things worth raising:

    1). The Harden trade ended up good for us but there were several mistakes made that prevented us from maximizing Harden’s return, like passing on Jarrett Allen and prioritizing Olidipo. We also can’t forget the bad Russ/John Wall trade. The john Wall situation was a disaster and the Wiz actually ended up getting much more for Russ when they sent him to LA. Fair?

    2). Completely willing to give Stone credit for Sengun; one of the best draft picks in franchise history. To that point I give Stone huge credit for the friendly Sengun extension. Huge Kudos there.

    3). I think it’s important to add context to the Ime hire. The franchise culture was in the toilet, we were coming off our 3 worst seasons in a generation, and Silas was an abject failure as a head coach. Stone was taking some criticism. The Fertittas were getting frustrated. It’s been widely reported that Ime was more of a Fertitta hire, and that Stone preferred Vogel. Ime was given a lot of internal power to right the ship. I’m not sure Ime would be the coach if Stone had full control over that decision. I can’t grove Stone credit for Ime. And I honestly think Ime is the single most significant factor in turning this team around.

    4). Amen and Tari were great picks; personally my two favorite rockets.

    5). I can’t criticize the bari pick. He’s not a star but he will be a good starter. Most GM’s would have taken him #3.

    6). Can’t agree with you more on Dillon. I was a doubter but that looks like a value contract and he’s one of our 5 best players.

    7). Keeping the Fred contract to two yrs was wise. He was our most important player last yr and we have a lot of flexibility to work out something with him if we want going forward.

    8). Cam has one of the highest upsides on the team; great pick. Hopefully he develops.

    9). You failed to mention the failed KPJ experiment. Not good. The judgement to build around Christian Wood was also poor. Stone owns the toilet culture pre Ime. He also owns 3 yrs of Silas.

    10). Jalen is the worst of the players taken top 6 in his draft. Highest draft pick since Yao, and he’s no where near what we need him to be. It’s a busted pick in my mind. Pretty painful and made worse by the extension. Very poor judgment to give a kid two rich contracts he didn’t earn. We’ll see how tradable Jalen is, I agree with you, we need to move off him and upgrade the SG spot.

    11). To me it’s too early to pass judgment on Reed. I think the verdict is way out on Cam and Reed, our two youngest prospects with very little experience coming into the NBA.

    All in all, Stone has upped my opinion of him over the last 2 seasons. No one is perfect, but you can’t argue with how fast things have turned around. I think most of that is Ime, but I now give Stone a B (two years ago he was a C). If he can eventually pull off a franchise changing deal when we finally need to make that jump into contention he can move up to an A. We’ll see.
     
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  15. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    You are basically grading puzzle pieces of a canvas.......the picture will grade itself once the Rockets win the WCF or the Finals......

    Or if it is the other way, then not.

    Yes, Ime is the guy that has brought the most change.

    I bet Ime would do a fine ass job as General Manager as well......at least not much worse.

    Directing a team of talented managers. ----Brad Stevens comes to the mind.
     
    #255 daywalker02, Dec 11, 2024
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2024
  16. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    We have to move away from the out dated notion that one guy at the top does it all.....

    There is a GM in name and there are teams working for him and there is a President of Bball Operations/Vice President of BBall Operations....etc.....

    Many talented Front Office guys.

     
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  17. MrButtocks

    MrButtocks Member

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    Anyone who wanted to trade Harden for Simmons shouldn't be grading Stone's performance. None of Stone's bad moves even come close to his good ones. Considering the position he started with (all of our pick obligations to OKC due to the Westbrook/CP3 trade, Morey and D'antoni recently quit, Harden and Westbrook publicly demanding trades), it's amazing to be where we are four years later. We're third in the West, flush with prospects and future draft capital.

    People criticizing particular bad moves or moves that didn't even happen (Bridges) are missing the forest for the trees. Sam Presti traded away Alperen Sengun for two of our future first round picks. He then packaged those two picks, plus one from Denver, to draft Ousmane Dieng in the lotto. So he let Sengun become a cornerstone for other franchise in the West while trading three first round picks for a bust. That is objectively a terrible move. Does that mean Presti's not a top executive? Of course not. He's done a great job and built a title contender in OKC, while having a million first round picks. No GM ever hits on 100% of their moves. Anyone judging Stone for not doing so is probably just used to GM'ing in NBA 2K.
     
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  18. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Member

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    Perhaps Stone is more part of the "grit" theme than given credit for. Stephen Silas was a patchup hire days after Morey left, for a still competing James Harden team. Silas then conveniently kept around for tanking after Harden left. With reports of Stone still imposing his way over Silas

    Then Stone able to seek "his" type in Brooks, Udoka & VanVleet after. Maybe its how he likes Porter Jr way too much, going with Cam Whitmore, even Christian Wood, rugged feistiness isnt too much turnoff. Stone doesnt have a definitive identity, but Tari Eason might be a "Stone" player. (Meaning Jimmy Butler is a prime match :p).

    The Porter Jr & Jalen Green contracts probably shouldnt have been done, but there was bit of hedges built into them that dont make them the worst deals. But have to hold it against Stone for even thinking of keeping Victor Oladipo on an extension. Massive bullet dodged. I didnt like the Brook Lopez chase with shedding the young prospects & picks.

    But a home run in Udoka for sure to guide the ship firmly. While head coach has been a downgraded position, its certainly the key difference for the Rockets even with uneven roster construction. Brooks turned doubters into supporters. 2nd in the West currently. B to B+
     
  19. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Stone had clearly more say in his hiring of Stephen Silas and his installation of the potential PG in KPJ that went wrong.

    I think Tilman Fertitta clearly shortened the leash of Stone in all these things and shifted the power towards more of a decisive, head strong figure that Ime Udoka himself represents.

    I think furthermore that Fertitta knows what Stone brings to the table but by diminishing and weakening interference by Rafael Stone, he brought out the best of a limited Stone who sticks to contracts and receiving calls.

    Udoka is the PR Face of this team. Make no mistake. He is also the more knowledgeable NBA mind.

     
    #259 daywalker02, Dec 14, 2024
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2024
  20. TheRealist137

    TheRealist137 Member

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