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Government showdown of 2023

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by astros123, May 9, 2023.

  1. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Not true. Progressives are livid over the deal and economists who are dems are flaming biden for negotiating and not doing the 14th. Getting a deal done was only done because biden wasn't an arrogant SOB. This represents biden perfectly



    Biden has cut a trillion dollar infrastructure bill with mitch McConnell, got a gun safety bill with a Texas republican senator and now got a deal with MAGA house on budget. Biden doesn't give a **** about being right or wrong. He just wants to cut deals and leaves his arrogance behind.

    Trump and obama never got any legislation through because they were arrogant and thought of themselves as holy. Obama wanted to win every policy discussion. Biden let's other people take the W for a deal.

    You can hate Biden all you want which is your right but he's the best deal maker this country has ever had
     
  2. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Saying that means sh$t. You aren’t taking a position. You say nothing and want credit for having some sort of bold take.

    Here’s what a take actually looks like:

    -Yes I believe the MAGA R’s would use their power to not lift the debt ceiling to try and crash the economy and most want to just to see what happens.
    -No I don’t believe the debt ceiling law from 1917 is Constitutional
    -No in a perfect world Biden should have claimed their hostage situation as unconstitutional and refused out of principle, and reverence for the constitution.
    -Yes most of the economy would have functioned normal minus state parks temporarily closing, social security checks maybe being delayed, etc.
    -Yes the stock market would have plunged and sent us into a horrible tailspin. Putting USD in question for stability and left China with narrative that Yen is more stable for the global banks to switch to eventually.

    -Yes the media would have spun that narrative as Biden’s fault for not negotiating regardless if I believe he was right for not negotiating with a terrorist.
    -Yes I do believe that and a true recession would have led to Biden for sure losing in 24.

    -Yes I also believe even now, MAGA R’s will try to tank this deal which is why I think Biden ultimately knew he had to make it. If the MAGA R’s tank the deal now, the media will have to admit that it was Biden who came to a compromise deal and it was the MAGA R’s decision to blow it all up.

    -Yes I believe the cuts to programs could really hurt Biden with the progressive base in 24.

    In the end it is a lose lose situation. All because the US entertainment media and the ignorance of US voters allows for narratives to affect responsible governance. Our decisive voter base on the margins at any point could plunge the US into a right wing autocratic version of Democracy overnight if we aren’t already there given the power grabs at the state and judiciary level with the MAGA autocrats.
     
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  3. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    What programs? SNAP? it's hardly a cut? With removing restrictions for homeless and VA vets it will be a net plus in enrollees for the program. Not a cut
     
    #343 astros123, May 28, 2023
    Last edited: May 28, 2023
  4. Major

    Major Member

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    They absolutely could try, but they'd be in the same position as January. There's no one else that can get majority support either. It would provide some great entertainment though to see how many votes it takes this time!
     
  5. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!
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  6. adoo

    adoo Member

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    The stakes are especially high for McCarthy (R-Calif.), whose survival as speaker could be at stake if he can't contain the anger of right-wing Republicans who already are panning the compromise.

    • A source close to the House GOP leadership told Axios that perhaps 60 conservative Republicans won't vote for it. That means McCarthy could need votes from nearly that many Democrats to get the plan through the divided House.


     
  7. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Perhaps, but... Biden and Democrats will point to mccarthy and republicans backing out of the "fair deal" negotiated, accepted, and bragged about by mccarthy on all the Sunday morning news shows. The republicans lose the story that Biden refused to negotiate. Biden will be able to show how he not only negotiated but got mccarthy's agreement.

    Furthermore, the extremists in the republican party will need to remove mccarthy. That will put an even weaker speaker in place who will get even less support. Biden will be able to point to the insanity in the republican party ("You want me to work with that?!?"). Instead of a near 50% republicans will be nearer 30%.

    So sure, republicans can try to pin this on Biden, but Biden's numbers are improving slight right now... let's see what happens when social security checks stop and Biden restarts associating republicans with killing Social Security.
     
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  8. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  9. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  10. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Good to hear. Haven’t seen all the details yet of the cuts made. However listening to progressive radio this AM on the way to get breakfast, the Bernie bros were out there in outrage. One caller was advocating for Biden’s impeachment.

    Which I think speaks well to the polling numbers. Biden and basically any coalition Democrat will almost always be unpopular with the progressive wing of the base because a Democrat in split government will never be able to get anything close to what they want… which is totally fine for Democracy and reasonable to expect.

    Presidents are hired to do a job. It’s only 4 or 8 years. Work your a$$ off and do everything you can for the American people in that time. It should be a thankless and hard job. The opposite of what MAGA autocrats want it to be when they conjure up an electoral win.

    Biden in this case I think is doing the best one can expect him to do in our current system. He’s taking a bite of a sh*t sandwhich because last year enough voters decided they wanted arsonists to take control of the House and we’re okay with the results. Biden is doing as good a job as one could be expected and all the Monday morning quarterbacking is just people wanting to feel like they have some sort of special plan that the White House just didn’t know existed…. Which of course they did.
     
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  11. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    The same bernie bros asking for Feinstein retirement ? The bernie bros like AOC, ro khanna, cori bush, talib and others going on MSNBC daily asking for Feinstein retirement so they can have their girl katie porter as a senator? Those bernie bros?

    When you understand their politics you understand why they say the stuff they say. They *want* biden to declare the 14th amendment so the stock market can crash. Thats their end game. The financial markets collapsing so they can "rebuild" it in a progressive way.

    They dont care for compromises or deals. They want their way or the highway. This is the difference between Biden and Trump that the MAGA folks dont get @Space Ghost . Biden stands up to the fringe wing of his party all the time while Trump focuses on pleasing the craziest of the craziest.
     
    #351 astros123, May 28, 2023
    Last edited: May 28, 2023
  12. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    The same
    Bernie that already has endorsed Biden for 2024.
     
  13. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Bernie *never* asked for Feinstein retirement nor does he endorse the positions of the squad but he NEVER stands up to them. Bernies politics are very very similar to bidens in many ways but he never stands up to the fringe wing of the party. I like bernie and i have no issues with him at all. My issue is with his die hard supporters.

    Bernies supporters dont want any compromise or governoring. Their political approach is that of MAGA. They want to destroy the system so they can rebuild it from scratch. Bernies communication chief of his campaign Brianna joy gray has said this many times. The best way to rebuild america is to destroy it first.

    Their view is disgusting because they dont care for the damage thats caused during their "reset."
     
  14. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    They aren’t that bad. The country needs a progressive movement to keep the liberals party focused on the forward movement instead of pandering to corporations who happen to support Dems.

    Yeah they go overboard from time to time but they are not trying to blow up the government to get power like the MAGA R’s will do. Bernie especially always in the end does the right thing for the country. AOC will do show votes when her vote isn’t needed just to prove a point, but I’ve never seen her tank a real bill for the Democrats and the American people.

    Now the Bernie bros who call into progressive radio… I just chalk that up to an ignorance of how government works and a lack of pragmatism that many have. People in the US often have a sense that they are the only ones the government of a president are there to serve personally. It is what it is with having our post WW2 culture.
     
    #354 dobro1229, May 28, 2023
    Last edited: May 28, 2023
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  15. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    You think doing "show votes" is somehow a good thing in a democracy? She voted against the 1 trillion dollar infrastructure plan which has funded over 27000 projects around the country and repairing over 4500 critical bridges? The bill that provides internet to every single american in the country for the first time ever in our nation? The same bill that provides funding to every single airport in the nation regardless of its size? Every airport in the country is being improved right now from new terminals to new parking..

    Please explain to me why voting no on such bill is somehow positive or smart. You think native americans in Arizona who have never had internet or electricity will be happy that she voted against their interests.

    I wish politics wasnt so partsian and toxic. Vote for things that help americans out. Its not hard.
     
  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I don’t think it’s positive or smart. She only did it because she knew the bill was going to pass. I want to see her be in a situation where her vote matters on a bill to really understand how strong of a political figure she’d be on the national stage. Since Bernie and Liz Warren are Senators they have proven that they are serious about doing the right thing in the end for the country. For AOC and a few others, they have little power in the end and are unproven leaders in the party.

    Now on the GOP side we actually have a situation where MAGA R’s have the speaker by the balls because of the cluster F that was the speaker vote. MTG has power that AOC of Talib have never had. Right now it’s not a good use of anyone’s time to get all worked up about them.
     
  17. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Performative politics is bad on both sides. You can't bash MTG for being a crappy politican but then praise AOC for voting against the interests of her voters.

    We should be tired of personalities and performative politics. I don't want my politicans to have large social media followings or be celebs. Politicans should STFU and write laws and do good for their citizens. We need to stop stanning our politicians. Their job is to serve us and make our lives better.

    There's no excuse to vote agaisnt a bill that will help your people just because you want to prove some other point. It's effin dumb and in any other job you'd be fired
     
  18. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!
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    Being respectful and complementary makes you a hypocrite?

    This is what's wrong with the GOP.
     
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  19. Amiga

    Amiga 80s
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  20. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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