[Gossip] T-Mac in trade talks; Involves Kevin Martin and Nocioni

This deal would be HUGE. Martin fits in perfectly here. PERFECTLY. And we get Rahim's contract? That means we can still swing a deal for another high end player before the deadline. Even if T-Mac is at 85% of his 2003-self Martin just fits in better.

 

If getting 10 free throw attempts on a lottery team is just ok, then Marbury and Baron Davis would have gotten 20 as stars on the Knicks and Clippers.

 

What makes Martin such a good fit, exactly? He's not a passer (his turnover number is almost equal to his assist average, both under 2 per game) and has been used to being the main scorer of a team. I can't say it's very apparently to me how he'll fit in on a team that's predicated on ball distribution and movement.

 

Rockets Staff don't leak information about trades anymore. They have been warned and told of the punishment for doing so!

 

I was confused in your first reply and now this?

What the hell are you saying?

Really, I'm feeling dumb over here so why don't you use complete sentences and tell me exactly what you're talking about/asking.

 

David Andersen isn't a power forward. Your premise is spot-on, we need size. But really, our 4 position is fine. Scolandry doesn't equal KG+Davis, or even a team with one awesome PF (Bosh, Dirk, etc.), but they are more than serviceable.

We need interior size, though, and mostly in the really big body, solid defender, bruiser type.

Kaman or Camby are the obvious examples...EXCEPT Kaman is off-injured also - he played in 87 games total the prior two years, and his contract runs another 2 years after this season. Camby is the better fit in that he continues to be his same old effective self, but he hasn't exactly been injury free always either, and he's 35. But his contract is up after this year, which is a plus.

But to get a Camby, you also have to take a Baron Davis - 3 more years on his contract at $12 million + a year. Ummm.....no thanks.

Golden State is interesting, too, in that Biedrins has a lot of things going for him, but has 4 more years on a contract paying him $9+ million a season. He'd be a solid fit for this current team and style, and a nice back-up for Yao when he get's back. But to get Biedrins, you need to take Corey Maggette, who is also overpaid.

There really aren't that many trade possibilities, right now, where big men are involved.

 

An expiring contract only is useful to lower the salary, which the Rockets need. I am assuming you have other plans for this contract. What would the scenario be?

 

corrected.

 

Ball movement is a SYSTEM. You coach it.

Did you even think our guys were drafted based on their passing skills?

as long as the player is receptive to being part of the system then it works.

Since when was K-mart considered a ball hog?

 

Repped...

Can't believe it took 11 pages to see that.

 

Something more than an injury-prone scorer and a hamstringing contract. There may be bargains after the season since everyone wants their cap space for superstars, so we could potentially get a skilled player that fits in our cap space.

Who? I don't know, but it can't be much worse than the gargantuan contracts of Martin+Nocioni, who I fear we don't get much out of because of injuries or lack of ability.

 

All of you that are wanting to hold onto Tracy's contract for cap space obviously have yet to read Bimathug's thread of the theory of 2010 free agency.

We are not getting a Wade, Lebron, or even Bosh with just his contract coming off the books. We would need to renounce everyone's rights that are up next year and we all know that would deplete the team just for 1 superstar.

I say if, BIG if, this deal is on the table Morey takes it. Bad contract (Noicioni) and all. We are getting an athletic playmaker in exchange for a declining has been trying to come back and make more money.

We need someone that can help us eek out the tough wins and make plays at the end of games, Martin is capable of doing that.

 

I don't think we can trade T-mac after the season. I think it's off the books as soon as April is done. The trade would have to be done by the February trade line. Most players included with trades have small contracts. The kind of blockbuster deals that happen with Gasol or Garnett have only happened twice in the last 5 years.

 

Are you saying he's not?

11.3 shots per game, 1.8 assists per game over his career. That's 6.3 shots per assist.

Compare that to a known ball hog, Allen Iverson: 22 shots per game, 6.2 assists per game. That's 3.5 shots per assist, almost half of Kevin Martin.

Truth be told, I haven't watched Martin play much and perhaps he has always been on a team that just couldn't knock down the shots he created. Still, the scariest part to me is that he's had only 1 season in his career with over 60 games. This season already looks par for the course for him, too.

 

Then tell me what he brings to the table besides scoring and attempting shots and with 10 free throw attempts?
A borderline allstar has to offer at least some other stats.

 

Martin would basically be another version of Budinger except more aggressive.

I would love this deal. We can't keep playing Battier and Ariza at the 2.

 

I think this is a case of only looking at stats and not looking closer at his game. Martin is in the Reggie Miller mode of players. Reggie didn't blow you away statistically in the non-scoring categories, but his impact on the game was undeniable.

What make Martin a good fit is his style of play. He's very effective playing off the ball. Part of the reason he doesn't get a ton of assists is because he doesn't dominate the ball and the possessions. With good ball movement, Martin is the last person to touch the ball before he shoots. He's a great 3 point shooter. A GREAT GREAT GREAT 3 point shooter. With or without Yao, this is clearly an important factor in the Rockets success. He's a great FT shooter. Without Yao, something the Rockets need more of - he averaged over 10 FT attempts a game last year. And some of the stats that do matter, he excels at. He has a positive +/- for his team. His "Efficiency" rating is good. His PER stat has been at or near 20 for the last three years.

He is a good fit in this Rockets squad, specifically because he doesn't dominate the ball, which in turn makes his intangible statistics look weaker.

Again, you're just looking at stats and making somewhat incorrect correlation statements...."his shot/assist ratio is x, so he must be a ball-hog"

There is a reason he shoots a lot without a lot of assists. It isn't because he's a ball-hog, it's because he's a pure shooting guard. he runs off screens, moves without the ball, and shoots when open. he doesn't create for others, because he does so for himself so effectively.

his injury history, though, is a concern.

 

Yes, I know. My argument is that perhaps some $5-$7 million per year player that we could sign in free agency with cap space could have more value than the large contracts of Nocioni+Martin. There will be bargains this off-season.

 

Martin is the only option on the Kings. his assist numbers will go up once he plays with unselfish guys like Battier, Brooks, and Ariza. it's not like hes completely unwilling to pass the ball like a Corey Magette or Stephen Jackson. this guy has no history of being a ballhog or ballstopper. he would be perfect with this team.

 

I know you know more than I do but I really was hoping we could put the Tracy era behind us. I saw last year's little fiasco as a bridge burner and I would be surprised to see him in a Rocket uni except to build his trade value. And if practice shows that can't be done, then I'd expect to see excuses as to why he can't play and then try to unload him for someone of value before the deadline. But that is just torture to wait until Feb. Though you might get more bang for your buck if you do wait or he is able to play some. However, at this point I'd take a broken hand, no D wing and his DUI, bloated contract teammate for Tracy. How sad is that?