the times and AP are biased and in favor of bush? i missed the interview, so i don't really have anything substative to add. i've read plenty of spin, both good and bad, but it's just spin.
You're right, this came from the A.P. I really think you're an intelligent guy basso. Its just some of the pieces you post are so slanted. I used to read them but now I just can't bring myself to. It hurts my head.
There is plenty of evidence that the current administration planned to invade Iraq from the outset, prior to 9/11. Calling this treason is a whole other kettle of fish.
George W. Bush Inaugural address. READ THE BOLD PRINT and tell me he is not talking about Iraq. President George W. Bush's Inaugural Address January 20, 2001 President Clinton, distinguished guests and my fellow citizens, the peaceful transfer of authority is rare in history, yet common in our country. With a simple oath, we affirm old traditions and make new beginnings. As I begin, I thank President Clinton for his service to our nation. And I thank Vice President Gore for a contest conducted with spirit and ended with grace. I am honored and humbled to stand here, where so many of America's leaders have come before me, and so many will follow. We have a place, all of us, in a long story--a story we continue, but whose end we will not see. It is the story of a new world that became a friend and liberator of the old, a story of a slave-holding society that became a servant of freedom, the story of a power that went into the world to protect but not possess, to defend but not to conquer. It is the American story--a story of flawed and fallible people, united across the generations by grand and enduring ideals. The grandest of these ideals is an unfolding American promise that everyone belongs, that everyone deserves a chance, that no insignificant person was ever born. Americans are called to enact this promise in our lives and in our laws. And though our nation has sometimes halted, and sometimes delayed, we must follow no other course. Through much of the last century, America's faith in freedom and democracy was a rock in a raging sea. Now it is a seed upon the wind, taking root in many nations. Our democratic faith is more than the creed of our country, it is the inborn hope of our humanity, an ideal we carry but do not own, a trust we bear and pass along. And even after nearly 225 years, we have a long way yet to travel. While many of our citizens prosper, others doubt the promise, even the justice, of our own country. The ambitions of some Americans are limited by failing schools and hidden prejudice and the circumstances of their birth. And sometimes our differences run so deep, it seems we share a continent, but not a country. We do not accept this, and we will not allow it. Our unity, our union, is the serious work of leaders and citizens in every generation. And this is my solemn pledge: I will work to build a single nation of justice and opportunity. I know this is in our reach because we are guided by a power larger than ourselves who creates us equal in His image. And we are confident in principles that unite and lead us onward. America has never been united by blood or birth or soil. We are bound by ideals that move us beyond our backgrounds, lift us above our interests and teach us what it means to be citizens. Every child must be taught these principles. Every citizen must uphold them. And every immigrant, by embracing these ideals, makes our country more, not less, American. Today, we affirm a new commitment to live out our nation's promise through civility, courage, compassion and character. America, at its best, matches a commitment to principle with a concern for civility. A civil society demands from each of us good will and respect, fair dealing and forgiveness. Some seem to believe that our politics can afford to be petty because, in a time of peace, the stakes of our debates appear small. But the stakes for America are never small. If our country does not lead the cause of freedom, it will not be led. If we do not turn the hearts of children toward knowledge and character, we will lose their gifts and undermine their idealism. If we permit our economy to drift and decline, the vulnerable will suffer most. We must live up to the calling we share. Civility is not a tactic or a sentiment. It is the determined choice of trust over cynicism, of community over chaos. And this commitment, if we keep it, is a way to shared accomplishment. America, at its best, is also courageous. Our national courage has been clear in times of depression and war, when defending common dangers defined our common good. Now we must choose if the example of our fathers and mothers will inspire us or condemn us. We must show courage in a time of blessing by confronting problems instead of passing them on to future generations. Together, we will reclaim America's schools, before ignorance and apathy claim more young lives. We will reform Social Security and Medicare, sparing our children from struggles we have the power to prevent. And we will reduce taxes, to recover the momentum of our economy and reward the effort and enterprise of working Americans. We will build our defenses beyond challenge, lest weakness invite challenge. We will confront weapons of mass destruction, so that a new century is spared new horrors. The enemies of liberty and our country should make no mistake: America remains engaged in the world by history and by choice, shaping a balance of power that favors freedom. We will defend our allies and our interests. We will show purpose without arrogance. We will meet aggression and bad faith with resolve and strength. And to all nations, we will speak for the values that gave our nation birth. America, at its best, is compassionate. In the quiet of American conscience, we know that deep, persistent poverty is unworthy of our nation's promise. And whatever our views of its cause, we can agree that children at risk are not at fault. Abandonment and abuse are not acts of God, they are failures of love. And the proliferation of prisons, however necessary, is no substitute for hope and order in our souls. Where there is suffering, there is duty. Americans in need are not strangers, they are citizens, not problems, but priorities. And all of us are diminished when any are hopeless. Government has great responsibilities for public safety and public health, for civil rights and common schools. Yet compassion is the work of a nation, not just a government. And some needs and hurts are so deep they will only respond to a mentor's touch or a pastor's prayer. Church and charity, synagogue and mosque lend our communities their humanity, and they will have an honored place in our plans and in our laws. Many in our country do not know the pain of poverty, but we can listen to those who do. And I can pledge our nation to a goal: When we see that wounded traveler on the road to Jericho, we will not pass to the other side. America, at its best, is a place where personal responsibility is valued and expected. Encouraging responsibility is not a search for scapegoats, it is a call to conscience. And though it requires sacrifice, it brings a deeper fulfillment. We find the fullness of life not only in options, but in commitments. And we find that children and community are the commitments that set us free. Our public interest depends on private character, on civic duty and family bonds and basic fairness, on uncounted, unhonored acts of decency which give direction to our freedom. Sometimes in life we are called to do great things. But as a saint of our times has said, every day we are called to do small things with great love. The most important tasks of a democracy are done by everyone. I will live and lead by these principles: to advance my convictions with civility, to pursue the public interest with courage, to speak for greater justice and compassion, to call for responsibility and try to live it as well. In all these ways, I will bring the values of our history to the care of our times. What you do is as important as anything government does. I ask you to seek a common good beyond your comfort; to defend needed reforms against easy attacks; to serve your nation, beginning with your neighbor. I ask you to be citizens: citizens, not spectators; citizens, not subjects; responsible citizens, building communities of service and a nation of character. Americans are generous and strong and decent, not because we believe in ourselves, but because we hold beliefs beyond ourselves. When this spirit of citizenship is missing, no government program can replace it. When this spirit is present, no wrong can stand against it. After the Declaration of Independence was signed, Virginia statesman John Page wrote to Thomas Jefferson: ``We know the race is not to the swift nor the battle to the strong. Do you not think an angel rides in the whirlwind and directs this storm?'' Much time has passed since Jefferson arrived for his inauguration. The years and changes accumulate. But the themes of this day he would know: our nation's grand story of courage and its simple dream of dignity. We are not this story's author, who fills time and eternity with his purpose. Yet his purpose is achieved in our duty, and our duty is fulfilled in service to one another. Never tiring, never yielding, never finishing, we renew that purpose today, to make our country more just and generous, to affirm the dignity of our lives and every life. This work continues. This story goes on. And an angel still rides in the whirlwind and directs this storm. God bless you all, and God bless America. ......................................................................................... We will confront weapons of mass destruction? Who has those damn weapons? Who must we confront? This is from Jan. 2001, before the attacks.
to put it in terms al gore could comprehend, i guess that depends on the definition of the word "planned." are you talking about contingency plans, or the plans that clinton/gore didn't act upon before leaving office? if so, i'd say no, that doesn't qualify. if one could prove bush planned to invade iraq come hell or high water, and that WMD was just a pretext they invented to win over public opinion, that'd be something else. however, since the intelligence sevices of britain, france, russia, germany, israel, and well as the previous administration had all concluded that WMD existed, it'd be hard to "prove" bush made it up, unless you're somehow suggesting they also coerced the other intelligence agencies, and, soemhow convinced clinton to go along, even though bush had yet to be elected.
Interesting qualifier. Question...where in his speech did Gore make the distinction you are now drawing?He said "preordained and planned before 9-11" You called it an accusation fo treason. I see no mention of hell, high water, or any other meteorological phenomenon, or WMD pretexts. Which of your positions are you going to stick with, that the action as stated by Gore represents treasonous plotting, or that it doesn't?
i guess the over all point here is that democrats, from T-Mac, to Kerry, to Gore, to Dean, to Clark, etc., have been making some pretty wild, unsubstantiated charges against Bush over the decision to go to war, his conduct thereof, and his own service record. none of it is proven, yet the libs here seem to think this type of thing is entirely legit. yet, god forbid, anyone should questions Kerry's own activities with the anti-vietnam war movement, or his conflicting votes on the two wars with iraq, or his documented ties to lobbyists while trumpeting himself as a defender of the common man against "special interests who meet in secret at the whitehouse," and you rail against republican smear tactics. it's a double standard and it's intellectually dishonest. either it's all legitimate in the course of the campaign, or none of it is, and we should just concentrate on the issues. oh, i've got one: what is kerry's plan to defend us from islamic fascists, and how does it differ from that of the current admin. anyone?
basso, I was just curious... do you have your BBS details set up now to show you're not here when you are? It can be done, but I was wondering why you might do that, if you did, of course.
not sure what you mean, "not here when you're here?" no, is this some way of showing whether you're logged in? i think i must log in via a browser cookie since i'm usually not prompted for a login unless i clear my browser cache. i'll take a look tho.
Oh, I just noticed your little "light bulb" wasn't on but you seemed to be here. Of course, I forget I'm logged on and run around doing stuff. Folks could think I'm here when I'm not. People like me probably drive Clutch crazy. (sorry, Clutch!) Back on topic, what did you think of my response?
No, when the light is on it means you're actually viewing the BBS, or it is at least up on your computer. I noticed the same thing, the light is never on next to your name. SamFisher's is the same way and some other regulars. I didn't know that was an option.
Both the Times and the AP have the story, Gore accusing bush of plotting the Iraq war in advance of 9/11: I'm not sure plotting is the right word, but the administration pretty conclusively <I>wanted</I> to attack Iraq before 9/11. 9/11 provided the rationale they needed, though. If you read Bob Woodward's <I>Bush at War</I> - he was inside the situation room during the post 9/11 planning, Cheney continually kept trying to get Bush to attack Iraq as part of the response, saying that bombing Afghanistan was simply "pounding dirt" and that we needed to hit real targets to show our force. In other words, he wanted to attack Iraq even though it was irrelevent to Al Queda and all that. To Bush's credit, he pretty much ignored that strategy at the time, wanting to focus on Afghanistan.
Ok, without splitting hairs over verbiage, if it turns out that the invasion of Iraq was preordained, as much as it could have been, you would say that that constituted treason?
To expand on that, the administration had detailed plans in place for post-war Iraq, dividing up resources, etc - far more detailed than you would have unless you had some actual intent. I do think that much of the Iraq focus really came from the Cheney influence moreso than Bush, and it just became much stronger after 9/11. The meetings referred to above were happening in the days after 9/11, so this was pretty clearly something that had been on Cheney's mind for a while. I think, ultimately, Bush got played by a portion of his team.
