GOP hispanic outreach continues

Anyone in the US gets the benefit of Constitutional protections as long as they're not tied to citizenship, voting for example. Ignorant.

 

But they are criminals. They have broken the law, and have yet to be punished. I have friends in jail. They are criminals. I have a friend getting out of jail soon, and I no longer will consider him a criminal, he has 'done his time.' This isn't a one time, they snuck across and then followed the law. No they snuck across, evaded taxes, consumed services you and I pay for, and continually forged documents to remain in this country and receive services. They ARE criminals.

I am not worried about minority voting. As long as the RPT continues their Hispanic outreach programs, they WILL see increased support from that community. They are also making a more concerted effort to reach out to African American communities. Again, Hispanics don't give a cap about immigration. Health care, Unemployment, and the Economy are the most important issues to them.

 

Often the immigrant lacks the mens rea for a conviction to lie. The coyotes that bring them over direct them to a person to purchase a Social Security number, telling them that this is how you obtain one. Coming from a country where bribing government officials is the norm, this does not seem unusual to them. I have seen this very phenomenon in my legal practice.

 

What is your point. They still are breaking the law. They have to go through numerous processes to obtain these materials, and they know they are supposed to be sneaky about it. Have you ever worked in a restaurant? Notice how when they ask employees to renew materials all the immigrant workers freak out and take an extra two weeks to produce the materials. They know what they are doing is illegal, that's why they run away when the cops catch them. Sure, I bet there are some who are unaware, and the vast majority of illegals I am confident are not violent criminals. They just want a better life and an opportunity. But so do the million we grant residence to every year, and it is not fair to them to let you skip the line because it was easier for you.

 

True, that was a quick non-thinking response. I was thinking of benefits. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong, say something stupid, or don't know entirely about an issue. I am arguing on principle here. I am sorry you don't think those who continue to break our laws and steal identities should be given a free pass. I don't.

Got to go to a meeting, but I'll be sure to resume convo tonight or tomorrow. I don't shy away, even when I am out numbered. Present me your arguments, I always consider and read opposing views. I hope you all do the same.

 

The problem is that your continually misstate the law and do not relent when you are shown that you are wrong. Rather than confront the law that is counter to your position, you fall back on ideology. Yet your original premise was regarding the law. How interesting.

 

Don't need to leave till 5:20, so lucky you!

I don't continually misstate the law. You said it takes three offenses, the vast majority have committed three offenses, almost half have been deported before, and the others have committed other crimes to remain in this country. Where did I misstate the law?

 

Calling millions of Latinos criminals is going to blow up in your face so keep at it.

By your logic, McDonald's, Wendy's, Wal-mart and many other companies are ongoing criminal organizations for employing illegal immigrants without verifying the authenticity of their documents.

 

You are branding them as criminals whether they were charged and convicted or not. The administrative court has no authority to render a felony conviction.

It takes three offenses, an indictment and a conviction after trial. You also misstated regarding their right to a criminal trial. You said that only citizens have that right. False.

And lastly, AGAIN, your own stats do not back up your claim that they are criminals. 56%, according to you, are first time immigrants. They would not be subject to criminal prosecution.

You say that the "vast majority" have committed three offenses and post stats showing that 56% had never been deported before. How can it be a vast majority when your own stats show that it isn't even a simple majority. Who was your grade school math teacher? They need to be fired at once.

 

I am not concerned with how illegal immigrants feel about being called criminals. If they cared about that they wouldn't have snuck over here illegally, or overstayed their visas. Also, not all illegal immigrants are Latino, many are from all over the world who have overstayed their visas.

And I 100% agree that McDonalds, Wendy's, Walmart, and any other company that employees illegals should be punished. They are aiding criminals. They are hurting those citizens who are unemployed. They are hurting minorities and those who work low-wage unskilled jobs. That is why Republicans support E-Verify as one of the necessary provisions prior to ANY amnesty or pathway to citizenship for ANYONE.

Ok actually need to drive all the way across town, so I'll check in later.

 

I see you, and will reply when I return. I know you'll be anxiously awaiting my response.

 

I just want Republicans to get on TV and call Walmart and McDonads criminal organizations along with calling illegal immigrants criminals.

I find it funny that you point out they're not all Latino because every Republican I hear talk about immigration is talking about "Mexicans" which is why it leads to suspicion of a racial component being behind the concerted effort to brand them as criminals. Much in the same way they try to tie blacks to welfare and food stamps. The Southern strategy gone national.

 

Since when has immigration law been so sacrosanct? Immigration law is a very unique area of law where technicalities and single words can often decide outcomes. Additionally, because federal power is so unrestricted in immigration policy, the idiosyncrasies of Congress have huge unforeseen impacts and create large groups of what trueroxfans here calls "criminal." For example having a universal yearly quota from every country means that there are decades-long backlogs for Mexican immigrants, while say...Lebanese immigrants may only have to wait a few years. Heck, almost every single Chinese person in America was a criminal after the Chinese Exclusion Act, even those that previously came here legally, but returned after a trip out of the country.

Breaking the letter of the law really doesn't reflect much about anybody, especially in a legal field as volatile, and frankly, nonsensical as immigration.

 

trueroxfan isn't much of a lawyer.

Being illegally in the country isn't necessarily a crime.

In fact most immigration law violations don't rise to the level of criminal conduct.rather, they are civil violations.

Basically most illegal immigrants are about as much "criminals" as he is when he drives 40 in a 35, or when he masturbates furiously to copyrighted content without paying a royalty.

Too bad ignorance isn't criminal...

 

Even when it would fit the criminal statute, it must be brought in an actual court of law rather than an administrative proceeding. How this escapes trueroxfan is simply beyond me.

 

You find it funny that I don't say the same things politicians say? Interesting. I would venture to guess that they single out Mexicans because the majority are coming from Mexico.

Fisher/Refman, are you seriously trying to tell me it is not illegal to be in this country...illegally? Even if the act of being here illegally is only a civil offense they don't stop there -- id theft, social security fraud, perjury, etc. What does the law say the punishment is for being here illegally? DEPORTATION.

What is the point of laws if we don't enforce them? Are we going to do this every 25 or so years? Illegal immigration QUADRUPLED since the last amnesty. Are we supposed to continue that trend? We have ranch men on the border who are being chased off their land. They are afraid to let their kids go out on their property. But we should just let it continue because it's mean to enforce the laws, right?

I support reforming immigration, I do not support rewarding those who break our laws. But your only concern seems to be legalizing them because you are so confident they will vote Democrat and you won't have to worry about a contested election.

If the shoe fits...you're a criminal.

 

Your reading comprehension, logic and analytical skills...in a word...suck.

Nowhere in any of my posts in this thread have I advocated for amnesty. I am not a Democrat. I voted for McCain and I voted for Romney. You are so far off base here that it is funny. Also, granting people long term permanent resident status does not provide them with the right to vote. For at least the third time in this thread, your arguments do not reflect the state of the law.

You make wild claims about that the "vast majority" have had at least 3 violations, but YOUR OWN STATISTICS don't even back that claim up. You still haven't reconciled that one. This indicates that your entire argument is flawed at its very core.

In your latest post, you acknowledge that immigration violations are civil wrongs, not criminal wrongs. You then again refer to them as criminals. This means either that you are married to your untenable position or you are functionally r****ded. I will leave it to you to tell us which, although I am not certain that you can provide an objective response.

You are good at parroting talking points, but completely inept at reconciling those talking points with actual law and logic.

 

End the welfare state
Open the borders
Everyone wins

 

Once again not only do they block legislation they have no alternative. its not pratical to prosecute them to depott them. you have to do something

 

You can insult me all you want, I don't seek your approval.

Did I accuse you of supporting amnesty? I don't support amnesty, didn't say you did.

Didn't say it did.

1) Entering the country illegally
2) Falsifying documents (fraud/perjury)
3) Tax evasion

Almost all illegals have committed at least these three.

Breaking the law, is a crime, committing a crime makes you a criminal. Whether the act of intentionally entering the country illegally is civil or not is irrelevant, it is still illegal. And again, the vast majority are not just coming over here and doing nothing, they are continuing to break the law to get around and make money.

Again, you may personally insult me all you want. Doesn't change the fact that illegal immigrants are criminals.

Didn't realize I was parroting anyone's talking points. These are my personal beliefs, I don't piggy back anyone else.