GOP: Female body has natural defense against pregnancy in case of legitimate rape

Are you in favor of sex ed in public schools, mandating insurance coverage for birth control and making it easily obtainable for the uninsured, strong public programs for things like daycare and headstart, and requiring employers to allow mothers paid time off after the birth of a child?

 

I do. Honestly, I started to make a post with an open thank-you and appreciation but got sidetracked by some of the more volatile stuff.

[Have to go pick up my girls from Open Gymnastics. I'll try to get back and finish my reply later...]

I can understand what you are saying but I just don't buy it. Feel-good language (i.e. pro-Choice) just masks the reality of what is at stake. Look at how many times people assert being anti-Abortion but pro-Choice. They make it sound like being anti-BodyPiercing but pro-Choice on the matter. If it were than innocuous, I too would be pro-Choice and in fact am pro-Choice about a myriad of things. But pro-Choice in this matter goes way beyond not meddling in other folks' lives in order to save the one the is being disposed of.

Yeah, I'm pretty up-front with my language and I hope it haunts people. I don't think pro-Choice people should feel good about that aspect of themselves. They need to be shaken up. If they have to get angry at me to maybe make them think about it... I can take that.

Did you read the Canadian study I had posted from 2007. 52% of women seeking abortion were getting at least a second abortion. For every 100 pregnancies of girls age 15-19 there were 137 abortions performed... and these stats are just the ones provided by the public hospitals. The majority of the abortions are reported in private clinics where no reporting is required and i think it is fair to say that the stats there would be overwhelmingly worse.

I know that some women are torn up by their decision. That should tell them that they made a bad decision.

I'm sure every woman hopes she never has to have an abortion.... but so many do.

I'm all for (largely) unfettered adoption. Abstinance worked for me, so don't tell me it doesn't work. All these programs are find but mostly they just pick up the responsibilities that the unresponsible parties drop.

Agree.

As we've discussed before, I've softened on the DP. I have no compunction again the DP on a person convicted of capital offense but I am wary of the political pressure for DAs to get convictions and for them to keep count like batting averages.

I prefer Isolationism.

We can be coy or we can say that humans are better. God gave us canine teeth to tear flesh....

True. I've never had to face it directly. I've lived with the aftermath and regret though. The problem is that we have to make a law about it for all of us. A law protecting the innocent would seem preferrable.

 

I think a fertilized egg is a "potential life" just like a unfertilized egg or a spermatozoa....it is "closer" to life than the latter two but there is still much to be done.

Much to be done, like a arduous 9 month process that is physically and emotionally draining and has the potential to kill the mother at any point during the pregnancy especially at the very end.

Of course "save the child" is an "easy choice" if you don't have to undergo any of that except possibly contributing the sperm.

How exactly do we "legally insist" a pregnant woman carry her child to term...we gonna station an armed guard to make sure she doesn't drink, smoke or use drugs. How about make her "well baby" exams.....pre-natal vitamins?

How EASY indeed Giddy...for YOU....might be a little different if there was a 2 week old clump of cells in your body that you knew would change your life forever and might kill you.

 

Nothing is proven; it might be or it might not be... who can say for absolute certainty?

No need to be restricted by the US Constitution! It's only "perfect" in its intent. Look at all the amendments.... room for more I bet!

The potential pregnancy is not a situation that we force people into either-- except the rapist. Even I can uneasily tolerate abortions in the case of rape or incest but that doesn't change the FACt (a word that everyone is so fond of...) that the child is TOTALLY and COMPLETELY INNOCENT.

I find it odd to call it punlshment but as I've said here and many times before I can uncomfortably relent on the issue of rape... although in my heart I think Napolitano is right. It's a compromise to gain ground, I suppose.

That corpse is a dead human and it was alive. It died a natural cause rather than via an abortion procedure. I only put it that way because I knew if I didn't someone might bring it up to undermine....

Whatever you say babycakes! Have you proven that your embryo fetus is not a human life? Why shift all the burden to me. Logically a living human will always result from a pregnancy unless nature or the abortionist intercedes. No one can prove with certainty whether humanity was achieved at conception or the first hour or the first day or the first month.... The Hippocratic Oath says, "First do no harm..."

Didn't know that. I was just conceding to our desire to conquer fertility problems. Then I guess we do have a bigger fight on our hands. Killing even more to make a few. How ironic.

The argument is constructed to turn around the accusation that I cannot forestall abortions because I cannot and do not know for sure when Life begins. Neither can the pro-Choice crowd. Their definition of when Life begins always conveniently falls at a place on the timeline where they are willing to allow abortion.

While they don't want me imposing my view on the world; they are all too willing and eager to impose theirs. It's hypocritical plain and simple. We can disagree but we should both be held to the same standard.

Look how often the pro-Life argument is shot down with a simple "You don't know that for sure".... referring to the humanity of a concepton.

 

Get up on positions before you start slinging mud. I've always supported the mother's right to choose when HER life is deemed to be at stake by her doctor.

 

All those things are fine but you do realize with your uber-rationality that you are just shifting the responsibility to everyone else but the folks who have made the baby? If they just stepped up to their responsibility whether that involves abstaining from sex or procuring birth control or making other sacrifices for the child they created it might not be everyone else's problem...

 

The point being HER life is ALWAYS at stake.

 

Pregnancy might kill you in the same way that driving a car or living in a house might kill you. Maternal mortality is on the order of 1 in 5000 (in the developed world). Your annual risk of suffering a fatal household accident (slip and fall, electrocuted, drown in the tub, etc.) is about 1 in 7000, and you roll those dice year after year. It isn't like climbing Everest.

 

Kind of hard to tell where people are conceived. Abortion and pro life movement was not an issue. It is easy to interpret out of context that the reason all persons are given right to life versus citizens because it was meant to grant right to life to persons not born. That interpretation doesn't work because I know the writer had no intention of setting a law for something that was decades before there was even an abortion issue

 

It doesn't haunt anyone and it doesn't make anyone think. It just makes people think you're a dick.

I stopped reading there and I really don't care what else you have to say on the matter.

You're not part of the solution and you don't even want to be; you're part of the problem and that's just the way you like it.

If you cared about reducing abortions you wouldn't be yelling at women or doctors or Democrats; you'd be yelling at priests, pastors, and the entire GOP (look at the platform). They are against adoptions to loving (gay) homes; they are against contraception; they are in favor of (FAILED) abstinence-only programs; they are against sex ed.

In other words, they don't give a crap about preventing unwanted pregnancies and neither do you.

You demonstrate quite clearly that you very much prefer to let the women become pregnant so you can yell at them, shame them, or put them in jail if they decide not to carry those unwanted pregnancies to term.

We could do a lot together to solve this problem; you're not interested in that.

 

No he's not.

 

So the disgusting old buzzard is staying in the race?



Excellent. This is going to help drag down the GOP.

 

Glad you figured out giddyup, Batman. It's a waste of time having a discussion with him about this topic. He's never changing or modifying his opinion. He simply repeats his position for the two hundredth time, with perhaps an insult to women or another member tossed in for good measure, seemingly unaware that he's done so. To hear him talk, women skip gaily down to the local clinic for an abortion, untouched in their souls by the experience, with no more remorse than an exterminator would have stepping on an ant. He's quite frustrating, but at least he actually works hard at it. Basso and liltexxx don't bother.

 

You know what Batman....we agree completely on your points here. The number of abortions would drop dramatically if we focused our efforts on preventing pregnancies.

Would I prefer that high schoolers abstain? Absolutely. I think a lot of those kids are not ready emotionally to take relationships to that level. That being said, we know that is a pipe dream. I think sex Ed should encourage abstinence, but you have to give them the information they need regarding contraception as well.

Being raised Catholic, I am against abortion. That being said, i do not believe that I am the moral arbiter for the country, and others may disagree. We have that right in this country. I, for one, cannot bring myself to tell a woman that she must carry her rapist's baby. Same goes for incest. Same goes for when medical testing shows that the mother is likely to die from complications.

I have never understood the Church's stance on contraception. The Church should be in favor of exercising responsibility, and that is part of the decision to use contraceptives. This does not even go into the safety aspect regarding condoms and disease prevention.

I guess I would make a lousy Pope.

 

You are being very reckless in your usage of language.

The nazi's were very intolerant and not very open minded - if they are similar to anyone, it is you, not me.

 

I think you would be a vast improvement over the present one.

And I'd venture the two of us agree more often and in more areas than you do with today's GOP. Hell, Nixon and Reagan and Bush the first would agree more with today's Democrats than today's GOP.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight, as I think abortion, while horrid, does need to happen at times and any law prohibiting it does nothing to solve the problem; as in they will still happen.

As to today's GOP? We're looking at taxes first and foremost. Come up with a democrat that doesn't want to waste money (yes, waste) taxing us and I'll get behind that.

Lincoln would be rolling in his grave if he saw what "liberals" were wasting American's money with.

 

You are disposing of the sub-human "fetuses" just like they felt justified in disposing of the Jews. Get a clue...

 

Someone tell the Prince of Larkness that I'm not obliged to change my opinion... since he won't. :grin:

I don't seek your approval nor have I used the word skipping. I only insult back. I've informed everyone that I once lived with a woman who had had two abortions and I saw the tears and the remorse years afterward. Everyone conveniently "skips" that part of my story and re-casts it as a gleeful accusation. The fact remains that abortions are run amok. More abortions than live births.

Do you even realize that you post on a one-way street?

 

You worked in your favorite word in the very first sentence...

Take your ball and go home!

When did talking nice ever stop a horror from being perpetrated? When the ugliness is glossed over, nothing changes because there is too much comfort. It has to be dredged up and called out for what it is.

I don't yell at anyone but I've said that I'm in favor of all those things and if you had not stopped reading you would have learned that! Some leader you are; you hide from the harsh reality.

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Oh right, sure.

Did someone yell at you when you were a kid? Hey, a jail term ends but Death is permanent.

I do everything else you want to do. We disagree on the aggressiveness required.

Are you familiar with "The Boy and the Starfish?"

http://youtu.be/6-fo24eIwVg