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Good News for 99% in Venezuela Chavez Wins

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/10/opinion/why-chavez-was-re-elected.html?ref=elections

    South America makes me happy. Their present situation is still visibly behind the traditional developed world, but their future is bright as hell.

    I believe very strongly in this type of pendulum effect in democratic governance. I'm sure it has a name I haven't discovered yet. But basically you artificially pull a country to a certain side of politics, sooner or later they will bounce in the opposite direction. It has to be natural. Right now, South America is experiencing a very leftist very anti-imperialist swing but it is not as far left as their artificially induced far right recent history. You see there is friction and resistance to this swing in opinion, and that friction is the collective minds of people.

    Ultimately S America will move more towards the right/centre when they realize that too far left is just as bad as too far right. But at least they have more control of their own destiny now. Too many people in that region have been neglected for about a century now. There have been improvements in pockets and waves, but I think more than the current generation of politics, the next generation of politics will bring great promise for these guys.

    Good stuff.
     
  2. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    They've more than doubled their cost in 10 years. From $3,867 for the academic year in 2002-2003 to $8,942.10 for 2012-2013. :eek:

    A 3.0 GPA covered the cost of college in GA. Looks like in TX, you need a 3.25GPA and a 1200 SAT. That SAT standard certainly punishes kids that aren't naturally gifted and those that went to substandard schools, which isn't isn't their fault.

    I feel for you Refman. I pray that HOPE is still intact when my kids graduate.
     
  3. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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    Even a high GPA and test scores won't do the trick in Texas. We have a daughter at A&M. She went JUCO her first year and had a 3.8 GPA with 30 hours. She got into A&M no problem, but just $1,500 in grants and scholarships for the semester. The financial aid folks told us that the funding just isn't there like it was a year or two ago.
     
  4. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    Did you look at some private schools? The sticker price may be higher- but they're usually more willing to give money than a public school (since a public school is using tax dollars). Some of the 2nd tier privates will give a near free education to students like your daughter.
     
  5. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfr...-latin-america?cat=commentisfree&type=article
     
  6. AroundTheWorld

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    Mathloom: I think you recently asked about possible holiday destinations.

    Not sure if you have gone already, but how about Venezuela? It is a beautiful country with beautiful women and generally friendly people. Los Roques is amazing, but that is only one of many places there, the country has so much to offer.

    As an added benefit, you could talk to people and gather your own impressions about the political situation.
     
  7. SC1211

    SC1211 Contributing Member
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    Look, I'm pretty liberal, but man has Hugo Chavez totally ****ed the Venezuelan oil industry. Seriously, ask anyone who works in the oil business about PDVSA. It's a total joke.
     
  8. SC1211

    SC1211 Contributing Member
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    Also, yeah:
    http://www.hrw.org/news/2008/10/09/hugo-ch-vez-versus-human-rights



    Let's not be crazy about Hugo Chavez.
     
  9. AroundTheWorld

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    Thanks for posting this, SC1211. As I said, some of these guys should go there themselves to see what's going on there.
     
  10. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    No one is saying these things don't happen or that they are not bad things.

    But we're saying the good he's done far outweighs the bad. If you're looking for the good he's done, I have no doubt you will not find it in the oil industry and treatment of government critics. It's been noted multiple times in this thread regarding his treatment of critics and political opposition. Regarding the media, it's debatable. While he has taken unethical approaches to dealing with some specific critical journalists, you have to look at the Venezuelan media. It's not state-dominated, they are almost all highly critical of Chavez and they call him out and dsirespect him and say whatever they want all the time. If it's true he was trying to change that, he has failed to do so for 15 years, no reason to think he'll succeed now.

    The oil business is in shambles because the people running it are screwing it up. Typically the alternative to this mess is that you bring in a lot more foreign, specifically American/British/Dutch, expertise. They don't seem to want that. They seem to prefer to go through these problems and hope to figure them out over time as they educate Venezuelans to deal with them. I'm certain that if you speak to people in the oil business they will be critical of it and Chavez. If you think the situation is different and you have expertise in the oil business, would love to hear you elaborate.

    Is the oil business worse than it was before him? Is the media worse? Human Rights? All of these things were worse before him, except probably the procedural efficiency of the oil industry.

    The Centre for Economic Policy Research says that he cut poverty in half and extreme poverty by 70%. That is serious stuff. There are tons of countries in the world rich with natural resources who have failed to do this. There are people in the far corners of Venezuela who would never have had this same access to healthcare, education and other basic amenities had (for example) his opposition been running the country. Yes, the oil industry would have been happy. Yes, they would not have silenced the right wing media (they would supress the left). Yes, they would not have expelled Western visiting critics of Venezuela, but they would have silenced the citizens who were critical of the way the government runs the oild industry under him (has happened before).

    Some things are more important. If one day they realize they are overusing their natural resources but have a free and fair democracy with a population that is well educated in a balanced way, I'm not sure it's all that bad. For me, education is top priority. Without shelter and healthcare, education is worthless. These three things IMO will propel them to contonue doing the good stuff and address the things you mentioned later since it's IMO rightfully lower on the priority list.
     
  11. AroundTheWorld

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    Classic example of Mathloom knowing nothing, but rambling anyway.
     

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