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Good News for 99% in Venezuela Chavez Wins

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    Yes. What are you confused about and what is your concern?
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

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    I would like to see proof of your statement. It seems like you know little about Venezuela, yet like to talk a lot.
     
  3. thadeus

    thadeus Contributing Member

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    Here's your choice: corrupt unions who foster programs the benefit the working class, or corrupt oligarchists who benefit the wealthiest members of a given society.

    Think utilitarian: the greatest number for the greatest good. It's a choice between two evils, but don't think that the wealthiest members of society, though they've fooled you into identifying with them, will ever give a **** about your day to day life.

    It's an ugly choice, but unions do more good for more people than the oligarchy ever will.

    The fact is that the oligarchy is only the oligarchy because they've convinced the rest of us that they actually deserve their cushy lives.
     
  4. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    Widely publicized info. Venezuelans' access and enrollment in education has improved dramatically under Chavez, number of universities is growing faster than ever before, and the level of enrollment to secondary schools puts most of the continent to shame.

    Sadly, your credibility with me is such that your doubt is meaningless and my willingness to do even a basic google search to communicate the info to you is non-existant.

    If you show any real interest, i.e. tell me what leads you to believe it is otherwise or which statistics are important, then I would be more interested. As it stands, you seem to be engaging in your typical policing of threads and stalking of individuals.

    If you are unsure about how genuine I am in my disinterest for that type of convo, look no further than how much more effort it takes for me to type this post than to copy a link or two after typing a few words into google re literacy, education % gdp, etc.

    Oh and yes, I love talking a lot. Sorry about that, must be difficult for you.
     
  5. AroundTheWorld

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    While literacy rates and higher education enrollment statistically have gone up in Venezuela, one must see that Chavez' people first of all lie about these stats and secondly, this is an instrument for him to cement his power. Also, by trying to gain control of educational institutions and in a dictatorial way mandating what has to be taught, he abuses the educational institutions for his propaganda.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Venezuela
     
  6. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    Yes you are right this is a disadvantage of the education system in Venezuela. In the same way, capitalistic countries place a major and almost total emphasis on capitalistic theories and practices while dedicating little or no time to other possibilities. If you are interested, I can point you to a copy of my American Economics textbooks to show you just how much of them are dedicated to capitalism vs other. So while Venezuela's system has clear problems, I think the difference with other countries is marginal at best.

    From your link:

    But this does not significantly diminish the overall boom in literacy rate and enrollment which Venezuela has seen in the mean time. Venezuela has gone from being a bottom feeder in education to being one of the most literate and highest enrollment in South America.

    In the same link you posted, which btw is vastly about the boom in education save for the final paragraph at the bottom of the page which you quoted:

    Here is some more:

    Is education in Venezuela excellent? No it's not and I did not say so. I said that they are investing in people's education, and they certainly are doing so disproportionately to the members of society who are poor or historically neglected.

    A serious criticism we can direct at Chavez is the shrinking % of GDP dedicated to education, though that has begun to pick up agai and was one of the central themes of his campaign - that he has not done well in this regard and will improve it.

    Does this cement his power? Of course. Why wouldn't it? He is providing improved social programs such as housing, education and health care to some of the least fortunate people on the planet and those people are voting for him. I object strongly to the autocratic inclusion of biased courses in the school curriculum, but this is a relatively small worry. I would much prefer this social program (which ingrains the seeds of political resistance and enhances literacy in the least fortunate segment) to the status-quo which is typically one which ingrains the seeds of conformist corporate employees and disproportionately enhances the opportunities of the already-literate. Both have comprarable pros and cons, but I think withing Chavez' social programs you are more likely to get intelligent challenges to Chavez's status quo in the near future than the alternative.
     
  7. AroundTheWorld

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    Mathloom, I really don't think you know anything about Venezuela, but thanks for sharing your opinions.

    I am not saying that socialist systems cannot have a very commendable focus on education, e.g., I believe that the education system in Cuba is actually very good. But to hail Chavez as some guy who really helped all the poor get an education is silly. A lot of the increase in statistics is because e.g. a lot of the army members got mandatorily enrolled in socialist indoctrination courses and then they are "at a university", etc.
     
  8. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    Yeah, that's simply not true. The statistics I provided were mostly from the link you provided. You seemed to be happy to accept the page when you used that small portion of it.

    There is no indoctrination system any more than there is a capitalist indoctrination system elsewhere. There are courses heavily focused on socialist principles, but again this is only marginally different than the political leanings of most educational systems.

    Overall, education has made dramatic gains during Chavez' reign, despite the problems you have rightly listed out.
     
  9. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    You know, I was actually going to reply, but then I realized why I usually ignore you; you suffer from an acute case of not being able to comprehend compounded with a selective hard-on for me.

    So if you can imagine it, I smiled and moved the f**k on. call me a tease. bye ATW, have a good day! Don't police and gif too hard.
     
  10. AroundTheWorld

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    I accept your unconditional surrender, Northside Intern.
     
  11. Major

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    I see the "new" version of you is the same as the old one, continuing with the childish insults and the "I have no facts, but I'm going to pretend I'm smart and tell everyone they are wrong but provide no actual evidence of it" shtick. The only thing I am "watching and learning" is that you continue to pollute threads without providing any quality content.
     
  12. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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  13. Major

    Major Member

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    Agreed on Student Loans - this is a bubble waiting to explode. In terms of Texas college tuition - are you talking about state schools? If so, a large part of the increase is tuition deregulation about 8-10 years ago combined with the cuts in state funding. That said, college tuition has been rising well above inflation independent of that as well.
     
  14. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    My college's tuition after fees is around 50% higher than when I was a student 2004-2006. :eek:
     
  15. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    i have only read the first page. but i work with a girl that was married to a venezuelan baseball player and when i talked to them about that country they said he was awful and gave me a few stories.

    then again you could hear the same kind of things about bush or obama from people. so whooo knows.
     
  16. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Have you ever been to Venezuela?
    Did you ever go there before Chavez?
     
  17. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    SJC went there at least once on his south american trip i remember.....i distinctly recall his praising the local female talent :grin:
     
  18. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    You would think two million should have more say than one guy like Adelman, but for anti-union Southerners and so ,many others. unions are bad and that is pretty much the end of the story.
     
    #98 glynch, Oct 9, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  19. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Yeah and you would know it if you did not emerse yourself in only right wing and anti-Muslim media.

    I would provide some links, but it would be useless.
     
  20. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    So all human organizations are corrupt? How trite.
     

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