I watched quite a few Raptors' games this year; I should say Raptors probably is one of the most horrible team to watch. Rox's basketball isn't pretty, but at least they are winning. Toronto plays ugly basketball and they are losing. Bosh and Carter maybe the only two players worth watching, others are garbage. Rose, Mo P and #1 pick for Steve, no no no, a thousand NOs!!!
Actually, I just heard this today but Steve said it after game 5 at the hotel. It wasn't here in Houston. As for my feelings, I would doubt that the Toronto deal would happen - Doesn't make sense to me. I could see something happening with Charlotte maybe to get them a star to market or something. I don't know. I'm sure that if something is being discussed in a very embryotic stage, Steve would know. The fact is that he said that he's out. Again, I wasn't there but, as Clutch can confirm, this source is as money as you can get. Clutch knows who he is but we just can't say it. But if you knew, you'd be like - are you serious? Anyway, I undersand that everyone wants a superstar in exchange. However, wouldn't it be better to get someone who fits in chemistry-wise? My friend said, "Steve's a good player, he's just not a team player." My response was that since basketball is a team game, how can he be such a great player. I'm not going to start some Steve bashing thread - I like Steve but I do not believe he fits here. That's all. If this does take place, I would assume that the Rockets are trying to better the team. By the way, on a different note. He also mentioned that JVG may not be here after the next season. He didn't elaborate because we didn't really care to. However, I do know that last year JVG and Les got into a heated argument on the Toyota Center floor. JVG said that if you'd fire some of your marketing dept. and hire me some more coaches and staff, we'd be better and all this nonsense can stop (Refering to players having to do marketing and tv requests). Take that for what it's worth but I can tell you this, everyone thinks JVG is a complete A$$ and is terrible to work with. Now, if we can get Cooper to take the USC job and leave Hagedorn to do his job, we'd already be better!!
Rose is exactly halfway in age between Ewing and Lebron. I agree about the %, although I did suggest a correlation between playing with a legit 5 and not. Mo Pete takes more than half his shots from beyond the arc, hence his overall percentage being almost as low as Steve's. That said, I'm unsure that this is the best deal we can get. However, I do feel it's a deal with talent more appropriate to the system we're running that we currently have, and also feel that, in general, we overestimate what we'd get for Steve. I do think that my posted version of this trade, with Cato and Marshall being added, would make us a very effective team very quickly. But either would be a concession to not having 2 serious stars. Now it can be argued that Steve isn't a legit star as is, or that Gordon et al could become one, but in general I'd say we'd be losing out in that respect. But I think we'd be a better team. I think you need 2 real stars to win it all. I don't know that Steve can be one of those, nor do I know that we can immediately parlay him into same. If options like T-Mac and Bryant are realistic, I donl't make this move. If they're not, but a move is necessitated, this isn't as bad as some are making out. I think that it is alsmost certain that most posters in here will be dissapointed with what we do get for Steve, in the event that we trade him, when compared with what we hope for.
Gators probably thinking more of trading Steve and let Yao be the MAN. Yes, Yao maybe the man at that time, but Rox will absolutely going down to the toilet.
I don't quite follow you here, Gater. What do you mean that Rose and Mo Pete use $5.5m, etc.? I'm reluctant to bring it up, because I don't know if people realize how much Jalen makes, but it's much more than $5.5 million. The pick is the difference maker to me too. I'm persuaded that the talent level is comparable without it, but I think it's the possibility of getting a good starting PG that excites me. I think Harris or Gordon could very well be available with the Raptors pick. Of the teams in the lottery, I see only two or three (including the Raptors) who are in the market for a PG.
The problem with that is that Francis and Yao would still be on the same team. And that can't happen. Any ancillary improvements we'd get from adding better players would be negated by the fact that Francis and Yao would be playing together. They just don't fit well together. Not to mention that Francis doesn't play well with *others* anyway. He's best with the ball in his hands at the exclusion of everything else. I agree that we should weight the options (not sure I agree with the Rose acquisition). But Francis can't stay if we hope to gain any substantial improvements to the team w/Yao.
If you consider recent NBA history (the modern player), this is not an encouraging observation to come from a legitimate insider. Riley is the closest of the recent championship coaches to be an "A$$ and terrible to work with," but even he was just more of a strict taskmaster.
Doc Rocket, does Charlotte agreeing to take on a bad contract in addition to Steve make any sense to you? I know it's an idle comment, and any arrangement is as you say in nascent stages, but the Charlotte deal with the bad contract makes less sense to me from Charlotte's perspective than the Toronto deal.
Popovich isn't exactly a player's coach. Nor is Sloan. Or Carlisle. Hubie has never been easy to get along with. Larry Brwon, while better than these, has also often been called a taskmaster.
MacBeth, Im a huge Van Gundy hater! I hear everyone talking about ho wthe players dont fit here. But what if it were as simple as....Van Gundy doesnt fit here? I think he is a good guy from what I can see on TV but in the same respect he seems like a butt. If the Rockets forced Rudy out they made a HUGE mistake. I think Rudy could have done better than winning one more game than the year before. I submit to you for your consideration. The coach may not fit with this team.
Hmm. That's an interesting idea. The Rox would have about 8 million in cap room if Steve and Mo were taken off the books. Then we could draft Deng and make a good offer for Okur. Yao, Okur, Deng would be the most promising young frontcourt in the league. It's definately something to consider.
My official comment is that I have no idea what they'll do. As a fan, and an expert in Madden 2004 franchise mode, I'd like to think that I can put together a pretty good team!! However, neither of these deals inspire to write, paint, or make passionate love to a beautiful woman (Ok, exclude the last part!!) As far as I'm concerned, it's like Clutch says - this is step 1. The odds are it would be a different deal come a few months from now.
I just want to underscore this point because I agree with it so much. I want no part of the high school kids. This team is too close to wait for one of them to develop (LeBron and Amare were rarities; it usually takes these kids 3 years to contribute). Harris, I think, is Francis-lite. A scorer in a PG body. Ben Gordon, maybe, but he's not a lock. Only Okafor is a lock which is why he'll go at 1 or 2. And he fills our need for a power forward. Unless you're guaranteed to get him -- and you'd probably need the #1 to be guaranteed -- trading a Stevie trade where the centerpiece is a high draft pick is a crappy trade.
First, thanks for the info. Any smidgets you post are greatly appreciated, evidenced by all your threads' extending out to 10-20 pages. Second, I don't like those deals at all. If that's what we get in return(Especially before the lottery...we have no idea how high those picks are), I think we would fare better with Steve at the reigns. I really doubt that Charlotte would trade us #1 or #2, as both picks will probably turn into stud PF's.
I was never a proponent of getting JVG, only preferred him to Dunleavy. I was on record, if you'll recall, as just about the biggest supporter of getting Brown, and was pi$$ed that it seemed money lost us the best in the biz. I think you know what you get with Van Gundy, and we got it. He is brusk, caustic, seems to emphasize the negative, stresses defense to the Nth degree, and looks like a castoff from the Adams Family. On the other hand, he stresses accountability, which we all wanted, and he gave this team an identity, which were sorely lacking till now. Around the league, people are amazed with how quickly he turned us into a defensive team to be reckoned with, and while there have been problems, he has managed to navigate the predictably troubled waters with turning this into an inside out, defensive team strsseing accountability after years under Rudy's ultra soft hand with relatively little actual backlash. The worst thing a team can do, and it might be happening to my other team right now, the Raptors, is to get into a pattern of constant reversals: we need to get tougher: hire JVG. He's too tough. we need a player's coach, etc. At some point you have to fish or cut bait, and realize that , for right or wrong, you need to have the organization decide the direction of the team by action, not constantly redefine that direction in reaction to the players' whims. Yes, it's a players' league, but you still need to get the right players. I'm not in love with JVG, but have been somewhat impressed, and if he's a d*ck to work with, he's the d*ck we wanted, some said needed. It can't always be the coach's fault.
I do not want a HS player either. Heck, if the deal worked out under the cap, I'd trade Steve to CIA for Sydney & Jack Bristow and then move Mo Taylor to the covenant for Sark and maybe Sloan!! Sorry...1 hour...tick tock....
Am I living under the rock, how come I don't hear enough about Chris Bosh? How good is he? Only thing I know is he's young and pretty decent. Give me more info please.
