now this is rich WE TRADE STEVE . . .to fit a system . . THAT MAY NOT BE HERE IN A YEAR??? Rocket River MAN . . . I bet Les MISSES RUDY ALOT NOW
If Steve is traded, I cant wait to see him climb Yao. The worst part about all of this trade talk is that, for meatleast, it has become a Steve against Yao, JVG, Les, the fans, you name it situation instead of everybody for the Rox. The feeling around this BBS and the Rockets in general just sucks. This whole team is going to have to be rebuilt if a Yao only route is the way we are heading. So much for all the chemistry we had, I mean Yao himself said that he has no friends on the team so syonara playoffs and O'Brien trophies!
If steve must go SF + Cat + Cato for McGrady and Hill Cannot get the good without taking a lil bad If I'm orlando . . no one gets McGrady without taking Hill half a Hill is still good. . .as the 3 he would not have to carry the team at all . . plus he MIGHT retire Rocket River
RR- I have been meaning to say for awhile that your opinion and mine are very similar. Im not sure if that deal would be enough for McGrady, but I do think that if you're talking about trading Steve that is much more realistic than trading him for peanuts from a team that can't compete in the east (scrubs from Toronto being the peanuts)
I'd take that trade. The agenda then would to get McGrady heathy and ready to play, i.e. don't rush his recovery. Make sure he's fully healed before bringing him back. Grant Hill would just be a bonus for whatever he could give us. But something worries me...While there are those fans feel that Francis should get a tit-for-tat (star for star trade). Those Francis-fans don't see the same thing that GMs and scouts see. Has anyone ever thought about that? Has any rose-colored-glasses Francis fan ever thought for a moment that Francis trade value isn't as high as they may think. Not in the real world were a scouts' jobs is to evaluate "total talent." The advantage that other GM/scouts have is that they've seen what Francis can and can't do w/out any of the emotional ties a SOF may suffer from. There's no loyalty that may cloud their judgment. Maybe we are jockeying trades in order to make *better* trades. Maybe the Rose deal would be only temporary, i.e. used as a package deal for a McGrady deal later. That's what I'm hoping. By the way, Donyell Marshall's name has been thrown around now and again...he's one of my favorite PFs (16/10 guy). A veteran that could bring some stability to our PF spot. Like HAYJON02 said. He reminds me of a harder working Carlos Rogers and a little bit like Chris Gatling. I feel that Eddie Griffin could have followed a similar career path to Marshall in terms of a PF-mold. Only if he had stayed out of trouble.
Cat, Cato, SF for Tmac and Hill If we do take on hill is he goin to end up like cwebb? tHe man is playing injured, he cant even jump to dunk the ball anymore. Cwebb will never be the player he use to be and I highly doubt grant hill will ever. If we have to take hills contract and does not retire, we have to think will getting Tmac and Hill make us a contender overnight because if it doesnt the rockets will have almost no room to get better. Assuming Hill averages the same stats he did when he was injured in the beggining of the season last year (29.1mpg 14.5 ppg 49.2fg% 7.10 rpg and 4.2 apg) its a possibility. If we make that trade we would still would have gaping holes at the 4 and 1 and not to mention the back up 5 spot. The rockets needed at pure poing guard and powerforward this summer and tmac and hill dont fit the bill. We end up pretty much upgrading our 2 and 3 spots which we dont need to do. Making this trade does not make sense in improving what we need. MoT is NOWAy going to be our starting PF, he has the worst +/- stats on the team. It would require roughly about 5 millions of the TE exception to make this trade work. If we can get lue as our point guard I would do it, but dont count on him being the point guard of the future. Even though obtaining tmac is very enticing, but Is it worth taking Grant HIlls contract. They have the exact same contracts salary wise and the only reason why hill came to orlando was because of tmac. It is a forgone conclusion that orlando try to use tmac to rid orlando of hills contract. Houston is one of the only teams that can asorb that many contracts due to our trade exception. If we management gambles on hoping yao can put up a 20/10 season next year Its a good change tmac and hill would make us a good team.
Ok guys, if you watched Beyond the Glory: Grant Hill... raise your hand. *raises hand* Me too. But seriously, that's my dream deal. T-Mac and Hill for whoever. For MacDaddy I'd take a risk on 2 sandwiches. It looks like they did a more comprehensive surgery this last time and he's really taking his time coming back one last time. They like broke his ankle and reset it so it could heal right. In all his premature combacks after inferior surgeries, he was still a solid 15/5/5 guy. Rust and all. Who wants to be set at the 2, 3, and 5? *raises hand* I'd love to stick it to Orlando one last time.
I've always said that Francis should only be traded if we get a star in return, and I have no problem with other GM's not wanting to give that up. That means we don't trade Francis. If you even waver and show that you are willing to give him up for anything less that is all you will get. That said, I think just about any way we can bring in T-Mac is acceptable value for SF. But throwing SF away for role players is unacceptable. If that's all his value is on the market then he should be kept a Rocket.
If it was me I would rather be set at the 1,4,5. But if Hill averages what he did when he was injured last year, 29.1mpg 14.5 ppg 49.2fg% 7.10 rpg and 4.2 apg, I would be more then happy since we were able to acquire tmac. If yao doesnt average 20/10 with maybe 2 blks a game next year, Maybe some people were right about him not being the franchise player, but with tmac that doesnt really matter. Our lineup would be Yao\ Need a backup 5 ??????\MoT Hill\Boki Tmac\ JJ ?????\????? As I posted earlier we still have some serious holes to fill if we did this trade. With our MLE, could we get us a PF, Point Guard and Backup Point Guard. From a scan the free agents list possible bargainst could be had with the MLE or parts of it to fill holes in our lineup: Mike James JR Bremer Chris Mihm Travis Best Marquis Daniels Chris Andersen Jon Barry Lindsey Hunter Mehmet Okur Zeljko Rebracca Bob Sura Brian Cardinal Adonal Foyle Stanislav Medvedenko Stromile Swift Jake Tsakalidis Rafer Alston Jason Collier(LOL) Robert Traylor Antonio McDyess Charlie Ward Alton Ford Brevin Knight Scott Padgett Rasheed Wallace(Miracles do happen right) jabari Smith Brent Barry Jason Hart Menk Bateer Carlos Arroyo Etan Thomas
Damn! Les is just trying to save some money, again. Rose's contract will be up in 2 years. That's the only thing he's looking for. I'm from Chicago. Believe me, Jalen Rose is just another good player. He can't lead a team as Steve does. He'll jacks up so many terrible shots can't stand him!
Rather than dealing with the Raps, I'd take Bobcats' pick to draft Livingston and dump some bad contracts.
Steve can lead a team? Yeah, 3 out of 30 times. When his "emotion and heart" suddenly and strangely and RARELY turn into "clutch". Ya know, instead of usually turning into stupidity. Steve is in the same predicament Yao's in, they can only "lead" a team, on really rare occassions. Difference is, Steve's had 6 seasons to improve on consistency, while Yao's had 2. Now, I'm not saying Yao will someday be a leader etc, cause we all have little to work with to be able to tell, barely been two years. However, seen plenty of Steve, 6 long seasons full of the same old same old, except this time we saw him play in the playoffs. Which I myself admitted to be a very good performance, the two times it happened, however it's still too inconsistent. Cause even in those performances he had some questionable plays. I mean, he just kept driving it and driving it, till the Laker defense finally discovered, "hey, this is how they're killing us" and decided to actually defend the lane, shaq comming out to defend the pick n roll. Face it, when it happens rarely, it's just undying determination, with athletic talents, keep driving it in, eventually something will fall, or till luck intervenes. Example? See Steve Francis or Allen Iverson. When it happens consistently, it's called undying determination combined with smarts. It's nothing new, Steve's all determination no brains, Yao's all brains, no determination. Yet strangely, they can't seem to mesh their games well together. But, I would be extremely disappointed, if Les dealt Francis for the kind of crap (compared to Steve's value) that's being talked around here, from Toronto. It should be T-mac or a superstar PF or nothing.
Hmm, you just don' t know how lucky it is to be a Rockets fan ... Have you watched any Bulls game of Hawks game this season? Steve's not a good leader. But at least he's kind of a leader. My point was: Jalen Rose is not even close.
The thing that is overlooked on this team is there is no go-to scorer on the team. We lack a Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, J Oneal, type... Detroit, Memphis, NJ and Sac don't have dominant go-to players, but enough talent for it not to matter. Trade Steve and you better get a scorer in return. A very good scorer. I am all for trading Steve. But for value. Not for the sake of a trade. That never works out. If you are going to get a draft pick you better really like the guys in the draft. Steve may not be as dominant as those players I listed, but he has shown flashes of being the go-to guy. Yao may not be that player, ever. (he could be but we have to wait and see) I love Yao, but he is what he is. Yao will probably end up somewhere between Ric Smitts and Patrick Ewing. That's not bad at all for a center. Steve's game is not best suited for Yao's game. Steve's biggest faults are his turnovers. Other than all the costly unforced turnovers he makes if he could shoot a higher % he would be awesome. I think of all the Rocket players Steve has as much potential as Yao. If he could just become a total team player, play smart and shoot a better %. Where we don't lose alot by making a trade for a good PG we don't gain anything either. We need building blocks that will take us to the championship. That needs to come form a great draft choice, free agent signing or a trade that gets us a key player to plug in. If Steve is the trade bait we better get someone really good.
Exactly right ... just want to point out though that the game was actually in Denver rather than Houston. Elie was averaging 15 points a night on 55% to 56% shooting (45% from long range) on a 15-game stretch including that night. He missed the next 35 games as a result of Rose's cheap shot, and the final 9 games of the season Elie averaged 7 points on 44% shooting and 15% from three-point country.
A Steve-less Rockets is only progress if the right trade is made. Jalen Rose is not a great idea. We need a an All Star PF, but an up and coming PG who is a good playmaker, who can take care of the ball, and has a consistent jumper will do. I just want to see what a true PG can do with this team. We have seen glimpses of what can happen with MJ (career over). I think Ming's game can be improved significantly, with a young, smart, and quick PG (like T.Parker). Unfortunately, all the teams want someone like that. As hard as he tries and as hard as JVG works with him, Francis will never be that player. The Rockets must deal with this reality and move on. Flashes of lightening are powerful and impressive, but they won't power a city season after season.
While the Toronto trade is not all that great, I really don’t understand all the hate for the Bobcats trade. That’s a better deal than the Suns got from the Knicks for Marbury. I’m not a draft expert, but the 4th pick in the draft isn’t chop liver. You don’t expect to get just a role player out of the 4th pick. You expect to get a franchise player. A young up and coming player to give this franchise rejuvenation and bring some much needed new life and new hope to this team. Plus, the team gets at least 10 million in cap space [from losing Steve’s contract + another bad contract] to possibly add a Kenyon Martin or a Rasheed Wallace to the roster. I remember when Steve and Yao were first drafted, the excitement around this city and team was unbelievable. Then after a bunch of so-so seasons it’s like a balloon deflating. Francis does not seem enthused to be on this team anymore. Sounds like from Doc’s quote that he’s counting the days until he can have a new start with another franchise. Yao looks miserable and frustrated. Cat is sick of the fans. The team I saw last season did not look like a young, exciting, up-and-coming team. They looked like a bunch of tired 40 year olds going through the motions. Am I the only one that thinks a fresh new start may be a good thing?
No way this will happen - no way no how unless CD was cloned and his clone is now the GM at Toronto. In that case, and ONLY in that case, would Toronto be stupid enough to trade Bosh to Houston or anyone else.
