Doesn't matter. They're human beings and no matter how much you may hate them, they deserve fair justice. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..." That's what makes us better then them. Gonzales doesn't believe in that (seems neither do you) that's why he's a cancer to America.
then how do we expect their countries to adopt democracy? if you believe what you say, then whenever you say that we're doing it for democracy is just a sham statement to cover up the fact that you just want to kill more brown people.
Except that no one else had brought up Guatanamo in this thread until you had. Somehow the association of charging the Attorney General with a crime brought the association of Gauntanamo in your mind. YOu also stated that Gonzales should be given equal treatment of due process as people in Guantanamo but have since stated you don't think they should have due process. Mcmark's comment also wasn't that Gonzales should be denied rights of due process only that he should be charged with a felony. I can't speak for mcmark but I think most of us would agree that detainees should be given due process which would include being charged with a crime and submitting to trial and Gonzales is entitled to the same right too. I find that an interesting mental association you would make and would site Guantanamo detainees as an argument to make regarding granting rights to Gonzales.
And how do you know they are all "enemy combatants?" Because George Bush, Rumsfeld, and that crew say they are? What if someone was picked up by mistake, because they were unlucky enough to walk into a situation of which they had no part? Some of the "detainees" have been there for years and haven't been given a trial of any sort, much less the justice our country has been famous for having these past two hundred and thirty years. In God's name, if he/she exists and still gives a damn about the United States, what kind of country do you want to live in, giddy? If you believe in this form of "justice," it is not an America I recognize. We used to be an example to the rest of the world to strive for. Now we are ridiculed, despised, and seen as being that which our ancestors fought against throughout our history. The world sees us as going deep into darkness because of this President, his comrades, and the former Republican Congressional leadership. And the world gets to add a reactionary Supreme Court to a litany of sins produced by this administration and it's political party. And you can grin about it? D&D. We Have Lost Our Way.
Did you see the post in another thread talking about how less than half the people in Gitmo were picked up on the battlefield? I wish I could remember where that was. I would link to it. If they aren't picked up on the battlefield then we have no real way of knowing if they are enemy combatants.
Funny how we used to be the ones hiding behind trees and shooting the guys in uniform who wanted to play fair...
I'm not sure why you are harping on this. I read most of the threads here and I wasn't aware that one wasn't allowed to bring "other material" into the discussion... The association with Guantanamo and Gonzales is comparison "to." In other words, why is there a knee-jerk judgment made about Gonzales (charge him with a felony based on a lot of unsubstantiated reports) but we must be so concerned about the due process of people deemed to be enemy combatants. I never said the Gonzales should be given equal treatment to the folks in Guantanamo. I asked why so much concern with the treatment of folks at Guantanamo but at the same time such a gleeful rush to judgment on the Attorney General of the US. I say it's politically motivated.
Rumsfeld used to be awesome on a stakeout. That guy has stamina like no one else. And no one does cryptography like Cheney. In spite of his public posture of being nearly illiterate, no one interrogates like President Bush. They guy just gets it done when it matters... Our ancestors fought against monarchical terrorism: debtor's prison, taxation without representation, et al. I wish that I could deliver your world without imperfection. I just don't see that it exists. It is a tragedy when innocent people suffer, be they swept up as a falsely identified Enemy Combatant, an incinerated secretary at a bond trading company on the top floor of the WTC, or a child unfortunate enough to be shopping with her mother in the market when a car bomb goes off whether it is in Iraq or Israel or the UK. The maniacs want to roll over us in any secret, despicable fashion they can imagine to inspire terror. What are you going to do?
No way? C'mon... Undoubtedly there have been mistakes made. They should be avoided and rectified. I'd prefer to see some punk about who there is question returned to the field sooner than later. One guy is probably not going to make that much difference... and now he is a marked man for sure. ... but I'm not ready to bring the house down over it.
I have no idea what your point is. And my reaction is hardly a "knee jerk" reaction. Gonzales has shown that he is nothing more than a yes man for the president instead of the people's attorney. He has placed politics above the rule of law. He has condoned torture, he has fired US attorneys who would not participate in republican witch hunts, he has lied to congress on several occasions. Under his watch the FBI has abused and violated provisions of a law that was passed so they could legally break the law; the Patriot act, under his charge he has turned the DoJ into a partisan republican arm of the administration. He should be tried for treason.
Your performance in this thread is one of the best examples of misguided-patriotism-induced hypocritical assclownery I have ever seen. Bravo.
I'm assuming he's now comparing the terrorists to the revolutionist who started this country, but lord knows what the point is.
You may feel like its harping but if you noticed I never said you couldn't, I said I found it interesting that you made that comparison when no one else had. I found it odd that you would make that particular association as essentially what you were saying, I can't say for sure what you were thinking, was that the detainees at Guantanomo deserved due process. Except that the argument around detainees at Guantanamo is that people are rushing to judgement on them and presuming they don't deserve due process. Your own statement above is rushing to judgement that they are enemy combatants. Charging Gonzales with a felony isn't rushing to judgement to conviction but the first step of due process and no one is denying due process to Gonzales. Your argument doesn't make sense unless you consider that detaining someone without due process is the same as charging someone with a felony when in fact those are legally opposite. This is what you wrote: It sounds to me like you are saying that due process considerations if they are good enough for the detainees at Guantanamo then they should be good enough for Gonzales. In other words, you are saying that both should be given due process, mainly the presumption of innocent until proven guilty. I agree yet now you don't seem to.
i dont know if it was me you were reading, but ive posted that info several times. the pentagon was forced to admit that less than half were picked up on the battlefield and only about 20% have any known ties to al-queda. furthermore, the majority were not captured by u.s. forces, but by pakistanis and afghan warlords seeking bodies to turn over for the rewards that the u.s. government was offering (bounties) it is very similar to the report done by the red cross and our own military intelligence officers, who stated that 70-90% of detainees in iraq are totally innocent. "If you think of the people down there, these are people, all of whom were captured on a battlefield. They're terrorists, trainers, bomb makers, recruiters, financiers, [Osama bin Laden's] bodyguards, would-be suicide bombers, probably the 20th 9/11 hijacker." -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, June 27, 2005 WE DONT NEED NO STINKIN' HABEAS CORPUS!
Read jo mama's post. I am pretty sure that was what I had seen before, and it was probably when he posted it. So we see that the people in Gitmo aren't all enemy combatants captured fighting U.S. troops, and are not POW's because they don't wear uniforms. That just isn't the case. Instead we have a govt. that is locking people up without due process and calling them enemy combatants based on whatever they feel like basing it on. That is no way to run a free country.
