ditto... in the best five man team, dream plays the 4 next to shaq, like he did next to sampson. 5 shaq 4 hakeem 3 bird 2 jordan 1 magic no other 5 man team could top THIS.
I agree with you. Chuck in his prime was the most devastating power forward I have seen. That said, Chuck in his prime also played some SF. You couldn't go wrong with either him or Bird there--both have great court vision, handles, Barkley the great rebounder and finisher, Bird the supreme and rangy shooter. Most of the greatest players transcend position and could play multiple positions, that is why I say just work on the best starting 5 you can, bedamn the formal positions (which is misleading anyway, e.g., Duncan almost always plays center when it matters and Dream has superior non-center skills anyway--there is no team you could make with Duncan in which could not be improved with a Dream in his prime in that spot).
I'd definetly take Wilt or Kareem in the 5 spot instead. Wilt was basically Shaq+. I'd probably go with Kareem though because they you couldn't employ hack-a-Shaq, hack-a-Wilt. Not to mention Kareem was also unstoppable offensively and a great rebounder and shot blocker in his prime.
Since this thread started, I've been thinking about the relative paucity of GOAT true 4s. If you were starting a real team from all the players in NBA history, 4's are the last ones you would pick... It's a given that 5 centers (Russ, Wilt, Kareem, Dream, Shaq) would go before any 4. And maybe a few others... particularly Moses and Walton. At least 3 PGs would go before a 4... Magic, O, and Stockton... and you could make strong arguments for other PGs like Zeke and Cousy. At least 2 2s would go... Jordan and West, maybe Baylor. At least 2 3s would go... Bird and Doc, and probably more. Barkley's an anomaly as he played like a cross between a 4 and a 3 and played offense more like a 3 (at least in his dominant years). So, that leaves Hayes, Malone, Duncan, and Garnett as viable options at the 4. If you're building a real team (not fantasy) from scratch and you have one of the top 15 picks, do you pick one of the PFs? I don't.
i don't even like him, but you have to take duncan before any 2 but mj, any 3 but bird, and maybe any pg but magic (maybe not big O) as far as i'm concerned. his D would put him above dr. j, stockton, isiah, west, cousy (cousy?), and he's certainly outdone walton. once you throw in karla and barkley at PF, i think SF is the weakest position of all (and i thought this was the general consensus anyway). SF's have been the guys teams have least built around in history from what i can think of.
by position, you'd have to go magic, jordan, bird, duncan, and then pick out of kareem, hakeem, shaq, and wilt (sorry, i don't believe in russell). my inclination is to put wilt first, but his lack of drive worries me and i can never pick out of the centers. however, as many have done, the obvious thing to do is to get 2 of the all-time centers on the team and Hakeem is the most natural 4 of the bunch, so you'd have magic, jordan, bird, hakeem and then one of the remaining 3. and even though i didn't pick him just a second ago, for some reason shaq seems the best complement to hakeem. just having his brute strength to go along with hakeem's ridiculous athleticism and speed would be devastating. kareem just seems like generally more of hakeem and even wilt wasn't as massive as shaq. having shaq's amazing offensive dominance with hakeem's amazing defensive dominance (with both still very good at the other aspect), having hakeem grab all the defensive boards with shaq swallowing up all of the offensive boards. anyone not scared from the paint because of hakeem blocking everything would stay out because of shaq's imposing presence (and vice versa). it just seems like the most logical combo. lebron might get his name on this list before it's all said and done. in fact, if he keeps going like this, i don't see how he's not the all-time SF. amazingly that was the 87-88 all-NBA first team.
Chamberlain is THE center without question. Nobody else has ever averaged 50 PPG and 25 RPG for the season. I don't think you could include Malone without Stockton running PG. I don't know who would be the best PF of all time. Just too many good ones. Bird, Jordan and Magic easily round out the starting 5. I don't think Hakeem ever played PF to my recollection, but I might be mistaken. Sampson played center only one season until we drafted Hakeem and then he slipped over to PF.
Stockton has to be about the most overrated player. In his prime he was no match for an Isiah Thomas or Gary Payton (according to Barkley who said Payton just manhandled him in their matchups). I think Steve Nash in his peak is a better player too. Magic is unquestionably the best PG of all. Stockton was a great and gutsy player with a really long career. He also benefited tremendously from having great players around him who could force doubles and put the ball in the bucket. But there are other PGs at their peak who were more dominant, harder to stop, and better. Magic without question, but I think you can make a strong argument for 3-4-5 others.
How about: Chamberlain = PF Olajuwon = SG Walton = PG Kareem = SF Russell = C They wouldn't have to dribble... just lob it to each other to get the ball downcourt... and they would be long on defense.
