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Given today's news, will Yao and Francis be with this team in 3 years???.........

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Deuce Rings, Jun 2, 2003.

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  1. okierock

    okierock Member

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    Yes I'm sure that Detroit playing well next year will have everything to do with Brown coaching and nothing to do with the fact that they went to the eastern conference finals this year, and have the second round pick this year, which by all accounts is pretty much can't miss. If Jason Kidd and the Nets stay together next year Detroit will find itself right where they are now. Home. Rick Carlile (SP?) did that this year without the second round pick. If Dumars is a genius for getting the second pick in this draft then give our management some credit for landing Yao. Larry B. will not win a championship with Detroit and I don't think he would have won one for the Rockets because he won't be around long enough. But if he is looking for a shot at a championship he took it with the team that has the easiest path to the game and the least chanse to win it. Larry Brown picked Detroit and Les couldn't do anything about it.


    The reality of this whole thead is that LB hiring or not has nothing to do with future player transactions for the Rockets and any logic that ends up concluding otherwise is extremely flawed.
     
    #81 okierock, Jun 3, 2003
  2. Deuce Rings

    Deuce Rings Member

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    The point of my response was simply that your choosing to put all your faith in our management which has a recent history of making some pretty stupid drafting and free agent moves. Meanwhile, Detroit has traded for Ben Wallace, signed Chauncey Billups as a free agent, ridded themselves of the problem of Stackhouse while getting somehting equal if not better in return, and drafted Tayshaun Prince low in the first round. Also, they have that second pick in the draft because they traded freakin' Otis Thorpe to Vancouver for a first round pick which is why they now have the #2 pick in the draft. I think a blind man can see the differences in personel decisions between the Rockets and the Pistons.
     
    #82 Deuce Rings, Jun 3, 2003
  3. Sofine81

    Sofine81 Member

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    I will tell you what, I will say Iam sorry for coming at you. But you did start the name calling. By the way unless your a female I hope you are kidding about nude pictures of me, for you. and also I would like to clear something up, I didnt mean the Living in your Parent's Cellar as direct hit toward you, I just meant in general.

    And Im not sure what my mentioning God in signature has to do with anyhting? It was a saying I heard and I thought it was very profound. Iam sorry if it offends you, but just because someone believes in God, does that take away their right to good ole fashioned debate?

    Iam not the type to carry a gurdge, if for some reason we were to ever meet, I know to leave the arugments in the BBS, and I hope you would do the same. :)
     
    #83 Sofine81, Jun 3, 2003
  4. Deuce Rings

    Deuce Rings Member

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    I can respect that. I know it takes a lot of pride swallowing to write a post like that given some of the things we've been saying to each other. I too apologize for anything that may have offended you.
     
    #84 Deuce Rings, Jun 3, 2003
  5. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    I guess drafting Mobley in the second round wasn't good enough. CD must have been crazy to draft Horry and Cassell too. And who was the idiot that traded Thorpe for Drexler, man what a bonehead move. Pulling Mario Elie from the CBA could be even more brainless than all of those others.

    DISCLAIMER - The preceding paragraph is an example of sarcasm.

    I have faith in the Rox management and ownership b/c they brought the only major sports championship this city has ever seen. They have a history of bold moves to try to improve this team (Barkley). While it is true that all of the moves have not worked out, it is also true that it isn't possible to bat 1000. I think that given the situation we were in just 4 years ago, we are in pretty good shape to contend for a long time. Five years ago, we had the oldest team in the league by far and last year we had the second youngest team in the league and still only missed the playoffs by 1 game.

    Besides, we still haven't had a chance to see what Boki can really do! LOL
     
    #85 GladiatoRowdy, Jun 3, 2003
  6. Deuce Rings

    Deuce Rings Member

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    I had faith in Rockets management for a long time. If you'll notice, all the examples you provided happened "back in the day", a long time ago (other than Mobley which I'm not sure qualifies as a great GM move. Well I guess he's pretty good for a 2nd round pick, but I'm not so sure he's good for the Rockets but that's for another discussion). Since 1997:

    (1) The Rockets have traded Richard Jefferson and three other first round picks for Eddie Griffin. Juries still out, but I don't think we'll ever see Eddie play at the level Jefferson is playing at if he hasn't shown us anything by now. Eddie will be no better than a solid role player.

    (2) The Rockets have given big money to free agent flops Matt Maloney, Kelvin Cato, and Moochie Norris. While Taylor isn't a total bust, I think (and thought at the time) that they paid Taylor a lot considering that he's a power forward that doesn't play defense or rebound well. During the same time have they brought in any free agents that were not busts? I'm having trouble thinking of any.

    (3) We've drafted players in the mid first round like Brent Price, Mirsad Turckan, Rodrick Rhodes. We might be adding Boki's name here next season if he still isn't getting playing time. You can't miss that many times in the dratf with high picks like that. Twice in the past 6 years the Rockets have had three first rounders and came up fairly empty both times.

    (4) We've traded Eduardo Najera to Dallas for Dan Langhi. No elaboration needed there.

    On the other hand, the only good post-97' move I can think of from the Rockets was trading Othella and Dickerson to Vancouver for Francis. I'm being serious. This is how I see it after giving it a couple seconds thought. Feel free to tell me where I'm wrong. I don't expect them to bat 1.000, but I do expect them to bat better than .100.
     
    #86 Deuce Rings, Jun 3, 2003
  7. Sofine81

    Sofine81 Member

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    And you cant add Yao to that list because he was a luck situation, and a no brainer.

    Management has some work to do to get some of the Trust back, but like I mentioned before, how many of us were happy with the initial signing of Moochie? How many were happy when we gave up Najera for Langhi? How many of us were happy when we locked up Cato.....oh well, they were good points up until then:D pretty much what Im trying to say is this, Hind sight is 20/20 and as much as we would like to think that we make better judgments on players than the current staff, truth is we may have made the same ones. Iam willing to give them alittle more time with the current roster to make something happen. BUT I will be VERY upset if Moochie is still with our team this year, MAN I HATE THAT GUY!
     
    #87 Sofine81, Jun 3, 2003
  8. Deuce Rings

    Deuce Rings Member

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    Maybe it's because I went to Texas and saw Najera play UT a lot when he was at Oklahoma, but I can tell you on that draft night, I was praising the Rockets for 15 minutes when they seemingly stole Najera in the 2nd round only to be disappointed moments later when he was trade to Dallas for Langhi. The traits that Najera his praised for now (his scrappiness and hussle) are what he displayed in his four years at Oklahoma. Najera was one of the scrappiest, most energetic players I have ever seen come out of college and this is a key ingredient which the Rockets lacked and still lack.

    Also, I was never happy with the free agent signings of Cato, Taylor, or Moochie from the moment they happened. While Cato had potential as a shot blocker, he was never much an offensive weapon at Iowa State or Portland. That was a lot of money to throw at a guy with a lot of question marks regardless of whether or not Hakeem was about to leave. Taylor, like I commented before, is a better than average offensive player, but he's a power forward and I think a good power forward needs to play some physical defense and rebound first. Get those things down and then look to score. Moochie? While I think he seemed to fit in well with Francis and Mobley, I did not think he was worth overpaying for just because he threatened to shop around.

    I hear your point about hindsight being 20/20, but I really think many of the Rockets moves were unintelligent at the times these moves were made.
     
    #88 Deuce Rings, Jun 3, 2003
  9. dbigfeet

    dbigfeet Member

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    AMEN
     
    #89 dbigfeet, Jun 4, 2003
  10. TheReason

    TheReason Member

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    This is exactly what I've been trying to say. Even though we didn't get Larry Brown, the Rockets future is very bright. As for Yao and Steve, I think they're both staying and if they don't, I'm finding a new team.
     
    #90 TheReason, Jun 4, 2003
  11. couch_pot8o

    couch_pot8o Member

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    couldnt have said it better myself. one thing though, even though SF and Yao move (knocks on wood), which is like has a 0.0000000000001% chance, ima still a rocket fan no matter what!!!
     
    #91 couch_pot8o, Jun 4, 2003
  12. TheReason

    TheReason Member

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    zzhiggins, read the name of the thread. We're not talking about Larry Brown here.
     
    #92 TheReason, Jun 4, 2003
  13. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

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    The Thread That Woudn't Die.
     
    #93 ima_drummer2k, Jun 4, 2003
  14. TheReason

    TheReason Member

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    Duece you post more than anyone, and why is it not worthy of response? Because you can't argue against it?
     
    #94 TheReason, Jun 4, 2003
  15. farhan007

    farhan007 Member

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    If people are arguing that Steve shouldnt get the max, then how in the world does yao deserve it.
     
    #95 farhan007, Jun 4, 2003
  16. jcage

    jcage Member

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    I have read this thread, and all I can say duece is that your argument is shakey at best. How in the world can you determine what will happen 4 years from now based on what happened a few days ago, and not throw in past information. That would make you a phsycic. If Les took a chance on Mooch and Cato surely he will resign Yao (if this is where he wants to be).
     
    #96 jcage, Jun 4, 2003
  17. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    All or nothing, huh?

    What's with this "All or nothing" logic?

    "Black and white..."

    "On or off..."

    "One or the other..."

    How in the heck do you equate, "not meeting 5 million" with "not meeting 100 million?"

    Do you honestly think they are the same thing? Yearly vs multi-year.

    Also, player and coaches contracts are on on TWO DIFFERENT SCALES.

    TWO or THREE million dollars for a coaches contract (Brown, Van Gundy or Dunleavy) does not have the same value that TWO or THREE million for a players contract (Francis and Yao).

    TWO or THREE million dollars (here or there) for a coaches contract is the same as 12 to 15 million dollars for a players contract (elite caliber).

    Oh, by the way, "Shelling out 100 million" is a 5 or 7 year contract. Not a yearly salary. But you make it seem like it's one lump sum.

    Les wont have any problem paying Yao and Francis. As long as they keep their end of the bargain.

    Championship

    Yes, that's right. Championship. Do you think we're in this to "just compete?"

    If that was the case, the Rockets owner would be named "Bud Adams" not Les Alexander.
     
    #97 DavidS, Jun 5, 2003
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2003
  18. UHcat

    UHcat Member

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    Yes, good point DavidS!

    Thanks for pointing em' out.
     
    #98 UHcat, Jun 5, 2003
  19. UHcat

    UHcat Member

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    I had a hard time understanding Deuce's logic. :mad:
     
    #99 UHcat, Jun 5, 2003
  20. slugfest

    slugfest New Member

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    DEUCE --
    Players drive this league/ put fans in seats, not coaches. They will pay Francis and Yao. They need to stop handing out the big contracts to stiffs like Maloney, Price, Cato, Moochie, etc. They need to fire Dawson if they want to optimize their financial output.
     
    #100 slugfest, Jun 5, 2003
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