I would still put CD in the top quarter of all GM's in the league. He has pulled a couple of boners in the past but what they do is not an exact science its speculation. For every Pippen and Swift, there has been a Francis and T-mac. For every Nachbar and Bryce Drew there is a Mobley and Cassel. Everyone that thinks he should be batting 100%, or 85% for that matter, doesn't understand how player movement works. So yeah, you look at Condelago (however you spell that), Riley, Shinn, Kiki, John Paxon and Joe Dumars you think that CD is falling behind. But look at Isiah Thomas, Elgin Baylor, Billy King, whoever is handling the 76ers, Portland and you realize that he is definitly ahead of the curve. Props to CD hopefully Morey can build on the good work he has done.
Technically, this is not true. They did not work out for us so we were able to move them. What we got was the potential of Snyder (TE from the DA trade), and the known commodity of Battier (while also giving up the #8, obviously). This team is absolutely better than last year's. Even if the result is exactly the same at least this year we have some youth that might develop. Regardless, though, I agree this was not a CD thing, it was just a matter of Bonzi making a mistake and the Rockets having the right opportunity by not having a legit starting 2 guard, McGrady, and Yao (and potentially Battier depending on how they got along in Memphis). And, yes, this organization has made a lot of mistakes during CD's watch. We went from a perpetual playoff team(who usually lost in the first round) to championships to a few years of playoffs to seven years of mostly sucking or being average. As Rockets GM, CD has not been as good as Patterson was.
I am with Jerry36, Gater, Sam, Cabbage, pgabriel, rimb the jury is still out on CD and results have been mixed. Actually until Bonzi Wells fell into our laps I think our own front office would have to be dissappointed with their total results. (And yes he did fall into our laps--Sac had offered him money before and his team misplayed that offer badly, and Mia or the Bobcats could have had him if they wanted him as late as this weekend.) Going into this offseason we had ther 8 pick in a good draft, some secondary tradable assets (e.g., Swift, Head), full MLE and a 4.3 TE--and with it only added a good role player (SB), a problem child (Snyder), a marginal NBA player who went to Europe (CS), two guys who hadn't made it in the league but tore up the summer camps (JL3, Abuz), a promising but completly unproven for American pro basketball (VSpan) 2nd round pick player, and another 2nd round pick who looks like he could be a shooting specialist bit player (NovaK). It was a major longshot even if Yao and Tmac were healthy that this roster could have advanced very far in the WC playoffs. Now having Wells does change this, majorly. Having Wells at his contract is unfathomable--I don't think we even considered it early in FA because it was so ridiculous. But let be honest, him and his agent passing on the 35mil deal from Sac made it all possible, along with decisions from still other teams with more to offer had they chosen. We were effective capitalists sure--and some other teams decided to withdrawl the chase for various reasons (Mia, Char). That said, how sad would it have been if the extra MLE money to unproven guys like VS, JL3 and maybe Novak had cost us Bonzi? Fortunately it didn't, but it was hardly because of great planning. In the end I have to say I am very excitied about the roster. Wells is probably ever bit as important as the Battier addition, and cost us nothing. But we had blown the James thing. In fact it caught us so off gaurd we didn't make a play for other FAs like Fred Jones and Salmons and by the time we caught a grip we figured the best options were lots of flyers starting with VSpan (who we had planned to stock away and season in Europe 1 more year until the James thing blew up--that gives you an idea if they really wanted to count on VS as a regular this year). Also, we probably at least should have gotten an extra 1st from Memphis when they forced us to include Swift instead of JH or RA for Gay. In fact I am not going to say we did better this offseason that last year, at least not out of design. Last year we were very impressive, we went out early on a major FA target, Swift, where a full MLE was marginally enough for him and beat out other aggressive suiters. We also got DA for a marginal contract. They didn't work out great (though Swift helped us land Battier don't forget), but they were aggressive and well execute FA plays that CD does deserve a lot of credit for. This year we were more lucky than good, but maybe being lucky is more important anyway, maybe it will turn out better.
i give him props yes, but i give tmac even more props as he is our best recruiter. shoo, he should just convince vince to opt out and come play in htown. hehe jk, that's just way too unrealistic.
It's unfair to judge CD based on last year. Back then, signing Swift was considered a great acquisition. It's not the GMs fault that the move didn't pan out. He brought in Swift, wasn't that what everyone wanted last year? I'm just glad we didn't waste the money on James, I'd take Vspan + Bonzi over James anyday.
So let me get this straight: Bonzi misreads the free agent market, passes on a big contract offer (5 years -$36 million) at Sacramento and thereby screws himself out of making big money this year, ends up setlling for a contract with Houston that pays minimum bucks and this makes CD a genius? I know that I've been trapped in the T.O. Wonderland up here but this is supposed to vindicate CD and make up for 10 years of ineptness and mediocrity? Am I missing something? I'm with DesertScar on this one - he fell into their laps...for one year. CD's supposed "skill" as a GM had precious little to do with this.
Rubbish. Patterson had the second best player in the world as GM. That covered up a whole lot of crap. Remember all of the lost years with the likes of Joe Barry Carrol, Allen Levell, Derek Chevious and Buck Johnson alongside Hakeem? Patterson wasted a lot of the best years of Hakeem's career and very nearly ran him out of town. It took the owner and Hakeem to repair that relationship. Dawson's tenure saw Hakeem and Barkley break down, Pippen turn into a turd, Francis never realize his potential and now the great TMac and Yao experiment. Patterson was successful because his dominant player played at a hall of fame level over a long period of time. It's not like his basketball acumen found Hakeem in the streets of Lagos. If CD is patient and has the same luck as Patterson did with Hakeem's health then the Rockets shouls win a couple of titles with Yao and McGrady.
For ANY franchise, having a true championship worthy team comes in cycles. You guys act like the Mavs & Spurs have always been great teams. A GM can't always make the right decisions. You guys say that Yao fell into CD's lap while you praise the Spurs for their great talent evaluation -- are you forgetting that they pulled a hardcore tank job to get Tim Duncan, and THEN with the luck of the lottery, jumped up a few spots to land the #1 pick and get Duncan (didn't Boston have the best chance of getting the #1 spot that year? Ouch!)...Also, they get mad props for drafting Ginobli in the 2nd round? Wow, okay, one mid-level star in the 2nd round -- what about Cuttino Mobley? Get over it folks, there's not a single general manager in this league that is perfect every time out. CD is pretty damn solid.
I'm still waiting for the mavs gm to realize a inside game will get you a championship. I'm glad CD works for us and not the mavs. For the price we paid for wells I think more teams could have been in the picture but CD makes his boys (Yao, TMac Batman) work even in the off season.
They didn't get anything while they were here - and it's possible that Snyder and Battier will not get us anything either (in fact it's likely that at least one of two of them won't). That's exactly what I/we said last year, we were not only better but we had youth in Head and Swift as the PF of the future, and what was the result?
Carroll was Rocket in '88, the year before Patterson took over. Leavell was a Rocket long before Patterson and his last year was '89. Chievous was only a Rocket for 1 1/2 years, Patterson also inherited Buck Johnson. When Patterson took over in '89 he was only 31 years old and it is true that the Olajuwon situation was messy. Regardless, the Rockets made the playoffs four out of his five years and they won the championships the two years after he left with mostly the foundation he built. Dawson has won nothing. It could have just been luck, timing, etc. but it remains that Patterson's record here was strong.
This was CD's final stand and a hell of an offseason. He's going out with his name in lights. Just as I hoped.
Regardless, my first point was at least the two signings from last year were not a complete loss. As for youth...seriously. Head was the one young guy. Swift was a vet and career underachiever. I never really wanted him but I hoped he would be OK. This current team got younger at multiple positions. The question will be if the kids pan out...but at least they stopped going after guys with one foot in the retirement pool.
CD has made big deals time and time again. His public opinion boils down to what have you done for me lately. We need to remember he has been very successful in landing good to great players for us.
Just to think that we turned Stro, the #8 pick, Moochie Norris, David Wesley, Jon Barry, Richie Frahm and Macjie Lampe into Battier, V-span, Bonzi, JL3, Novak and Kirk Snyder is quite impressive. I know these players werent traded for each other, but Im basically summing up what went out versus what came in. No matter what happens next year, i think management deserves a major kudos for what this offseason turned out to be.
Last year CD was good but unlucky. This year he wasn't good but lucky (so far). I'll take lucky. Don't forget that a couple years ago we had Tyronn Lue and Charlie Ward at the point.
I think people overestimate the Spurs front office. The Spurs lucked/tanked (if you want to give them credit for tanking I guess you could) into a nobrainer Duncan after they lucked into a nobrainer Robinson the previous decade. They also spotted two international players ahead of the rest--Manu and Parker, who have extended the effectivness of their true franchise guy Duncan, that has been the bulk of their insight. They really havn't done crap since picking Manu and Parker in the draft. Their subsequent draft picks have not turned out. Their big FA they signed using most of their cap space did not turn out (Rasha). Other FAs results have been mixed, e.g., Barry, Finley. We will see about Bonner, Elson, Williams and Butler, but I have a hard time figuring out how their moves this year will address the athleticism gap growing between them and the Mavs (and maybe the Suns if Amare comes back at all), they will really need Elson or Butler to develop into a really good player I think (otherwise they could be screwed in having to throw Duncan at Yao as well). IMO a front office like Detroit, Mia or Phx who have built champions or elite teams without the benefit of drafting/tanking/lottery winning for a no brainer type franchise player deserves even more credit. The previous Lakers management too (say sub 2004), but they had some built in advantages in that market. Indy has done awefully well for a long time without tanking as well.
I said there were two and you pointed out two more. I guess our defintion of "mistake" is different. To me, a mistake is something that resulted in some sort of negative effect particularly if it was forseeable. A bad draft choice or a long term contract is a mistake. Picking up cheap free agents doesn't amount to a mistake to me. Picking up Pike, for example, was a worthwhile pickup or DA. Had we signed Pike or DA to long term deals, that's a mistake. Signing them to 1-2 year deals at the end of the summer, its just a pickup to fill in the roster. Yes, he made HUGE mistakes before. HUGE. I'm just saying he has been on a roll the past four years. Maybe its just sematics, then. Because I don't see them as the same. Anybody can play hindsight 20/20. GM's won't lose their jobs because of a late season acquisition of Derek Andersen. But GM's would lose their jobs for things like MoT, Cato, Moochie, etc. Fortunately for CD, he didn't. Naw. James didn't play THAT well when he was here. It wasn't until AFTER he left that the trade looked bad. And if this season James averages 13ppg again but Rafer averages 10 asssists a game, then the trade will be a wash. James may have bolted from Houston no matter what. Afterall, he said he was looking to get paid. So dumping James for a legit PG was a safe move. Who knew James would suddenly average 20ppg? NOBODY could have predicted that. Trading him was a HUGE mistake, that's why the Rockets went crawling on their knees and tried to get him back this offseason. I'm not going to bother with the substantive reasons, because basically all you need: the admission that they messed up, is there.[/QUOTE]
That's a pretty forgiving definition of a mistake. I consider wasted seasons and the moves that contribute to them to be a mistake. Two lotto appearances and two first round playoff exits? After years of doldrums? I hardly call that a roll - ultimately for a GM, the usage of wins and losses (since he in theory is responsible for the coach, the players, etc)is really the only good cumulative measure. And by that measure we haven't been "on a roll". Joe Dumars has been on a roll. Little Colangelo has been on a roll. We've been treading water. I don't have anything more to say about James - the proof is there, the Rockets goofed (I thought they goofed at the timie) and they realized their goof and tried to fix it -- to no avail.
Landing Bonzi? Please, that was a gift. Same as TMac, same as Yao. No brainers. I'll give CD major respect if Spanoolis, JL3 and/or Chuck Hayes develop into significant players. Ditto if Gay is a bust. Til then he gets a big fat incomplete.
