My people have a word for people like Mel Gibson's Dad: Schmuck I have my own word for people like Mel Gibson's Dad: Assclown That being said, Mel Gibson's Dad has the right to say whatever the hell he wants, no matter how moronic, idiotic or ridiculous it may be. I also have the right to point it out for what it is: Stupidity
in mel's case, he affirmed the holocaust...he talked about knowing holocaust survivors. the woman who plays mary magadalene in this movie comes from parents who are holocaust survivors. how many times does mel have to say he thinks it happened and that it was horrible..the pit of humanity? i find this thread to be horribly sad on so many different levels, starting with the statements by mel's dad to begin with...
Would that mean that you read the article the criticizes Mel's anti-Semitic interpretaion of the Gospels, yet all you got out of it was that he hired a Jew?
Why is the analogy confusing? The Americans who practiced slavery are all dead and so are any Jews involved in the death of Jesus. Furthermore, there were many Americans even at the time not involved in slavery as there were many Jews not involved in the death of Jesus.
Cohen -- you need to understand that the overwhelming majority of us who say we want to see this movie because of our faith: 1. do not believe blame can be laid at the feet of the Jews for Christ's death; 2. are not going to see anything other than the story of our Lord; 3. are hoping that others will see the self-denial, self-sacrifice and love of Jesus Christ that's it. I know there is a ton of hype about what this movie is supposed to be about...and whether or not there are scenes in there that are anti-semitic...whether or not he just told the story as it's told in the Gospels. But to me, that's not what the movie is about. And the contempt for this movie by people who haven't even seen it...is...frankly...narrow-minded. If you wish not to see it, then don't see it. But this is not a movie that all in my church are planning to go see and then go scream at Jews. This is about God making up for MY failings. I'm struck by that everytime I see a cross.
Originally posted by Summer Song Giver It seems to me that some Jews are using Anti-Semitism to try and rewrite history. If I remember correctly the bible does put alot of the burden for Jesus' death onto them and while I do feel for them for the horrors they as a race have endured but that doesn't change what their role in his death was. Actually, it's Christians who have re-interpreted the Gospels. But of course you can ignore all of the religious leaders, theologians and historians, and interpret the Gospels strictly. Anytime a Jewish person is portrayed in a bad light it is not antisemitism. No. But to portray most or all Jews in a negative way is.
there's so much misunderstanding here, it's silly. i'm hoping this movie leads to some real dialogue, instead of this countless back and forth. this story, even as presented in the Gospel accounts just at face value, are not anti-semitic. they're just not. pilate crucifies the man, for God's sake!!! and then says, "i'll wash my hands of it!" how freaking ridiculously arrogant and cruel is that? Jesus' followers abandon him. The run like cowards and deny they ever knew him. THE ONLY ONE WHO STANDS UP FOR HIM IS A JEW!!! The man pulled from the crowd who helps him carry the cross when he can longer bear it alone. THAT'S IN THE GOSPELS. AND IT'S IN THIS MOVIE. The only friend to Jesus in those final hours was a Jew. Please don't let the failings of the church...and the failings of man in history...distract from the story of Jesus Christ.
Max, First, unless your religion is anti-Semitic, let's keep it separate from issues about Mel's movie. Do you think all others who call themselves Christians think like you? You even have a post in this thread from Summer Song Giver who finds it important that he interprets that the Bible placed much of the burden of Jesus' death on the Jews. I have read several article from people who've seen the movie. The criticisms of Mel's interpretation come from people well-versed in the Gospels. How can that be narrow-minded? Please elaborate. narrow-minded: 'Lacking tolerance, breadth of view, or sympathy; petty'. Thank you, I was looking for a good word to describe Mel's movie. If Mel didn't want the message of his movie to be obfuscated with this discussion that he should not have made a fundamentalist movie. FWIW I hope you find the movie to be all you want it to be. But it will not reach others who could have theoretically benefitted from it because of Mel's issues. (BTW, I still owe you those examples...)
Cohen -- It's difficult for me to separate my faith from the story told in this movie. The only importance of the Jews in this story is that he is ultimately rejected even by the temple leaders. "The cornerstone the builders have rejected." The Bible says what it says. Unfortunately, it's been twisted at points to justify ridiculous interpretations. But you're asking people who see this book as divinely inspired to say, "come on...you have to denounce that or else you're being anti-semitic." That's faulty logic on a lot of levels, not the least of which is that it simply does not say, "but for the Jews, Jesus would have lived." He was equating himself to God before the temple leaders...he was calling them out of every turn...I mean, ignore the passion story, and just read how critical Jesus was of the temple leaders. He came from the Pharisees, and he was most critical of them. Fundamentalist....I guess you can count me as one. I believe the Gospels accurately portray who Jesus was. I guess fundamentalist is a bad word. Sort of like evangelical. I just think that's misinterpeted and misunderstood, too. Are you saying that everyone who is well versed in the Gospels and the New Testament have serious disagreement with Mel's movie....because I'm betting it's a distinct minority. Or a group of those who merely study it as I study Soviet history...with a sense of disconnect...not people who claim Jesus Christ as their lord. It was narrow minded when Christians refused to see the Last Temptation of Christ because someone else saw it before them and told them it was "bad." And it's narrow-minded of anyone to make proclamations about messages of this movie without even seeing it. I've seen previews, and I've been very moved by those. And I've seen interviews with the director and writer of the script...I'll let you know how I feel about the movie after I see it.
Random thoughts and questions: How is saying that the holocaust might have been exagerated anti-semitic? How can a movie in two dead languages be thought to be anti-semitic, did you hear something like Corpus Christi haticus Jewsicus? No, instead you see I.N.R.I. or Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews, both humiliating and fulfilling that this King of the Jews as he claimed to be is this man/God. How can we escape being Jewish, in that we are all the chosen people of God? Do Jewish people hate those who are not Jewish? (In reference to previous question, how can we hate ourselves?...maybe thats one of the questions this movie will encourage a hapless answer towards, because there is no reason we should hate ourselves) What are Mel's issues again? I think Max and Moe have made it clear that he took the Jewish side into his vision for the movie. What's wrong with being fundamentalist about the telling of a fundamental Bible story? What's wrong with having fundamentals? Should we praise Stevie Franchise every time he does something incredibly stupid because he is being tolerant of new ways to dribble and play basketball? Or should we say, stick with the fundamentals? And how does being fundamentalist correlate to being narrow minded? Is it just that we should become narrow minded in some other field. And where exactly does it say that Mel's religion (Catholicism) is anti-semitic? Above our crucifix it says I.N.R.I., or Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews.
Tidbits I heard on the radio: 2 people were struck by lighting during filming. One person hit twice. Now that is bizarre. Somebody upstair must have been pissed. Gibson told the one of the leading men, a devout christian, who has turned down lucrative nude scenes, that after doing the movie his career would be over. The guy did it anyway. I heard it's super violent. That's all I've got. But the lightning thing is really bizarre.
Jim Cavezal who's playing Jesus was one of the guys struck by lighting. He also was hit with a whip once.
That was the second time he's been struck by lighting, which was a symbol at Jesus' death. Really freaky. Kinda gets me pumped that he's been struck twice and lived. MAybe he was born to play this role.
so let me get this straight, its alright to have your own opinion and make a movie about as long as you're not making fun of Japanese.
