Maybe so, but I would take CP over Howard right now for sure if you disregard future potential. At the moment, I truly believe CP is better. Considering the long-term future, the decision process on what player I'd want is different. When it comes to which player is more important to his team, CP is more valuable to the Hornets than Howard is to the Magic. I realize that is up for debate too.
You are looking at total assists. That leaves questions about pace and games played un-answered. Assist percentage tells you exactly what percentage of their teammates' points they assisted on. Code: [U]Assist percentage leaders[/U] 1. John Stockton 57.48 1990-91 2. John Stockton 57.40 1989-90 3. John Stockton 54.80 1987-88 4. Chris Paul 54.32 2008-09 5. John Stockton 54.27 1988-89 6. John Stockton 53.66 1991-92 7. John Stockton 53.07 1993-94 8. John Stockton 52.62 1994-95 9. Chris Paul 52.23 2007-08 10. Steve Nash 50.07 2006-07 11. John Stockton 49.84 1992-93 12. Andre Miller 49.82 2001-02 13. Magic Johnson* 49.30 1990-91 14. Brevin Knight 49.26 2004-05 15. Steve Nash 49.21 2004-05 16. John Stockton 49.10 1995-96 17. John Stockton 48.65 2000-01 18. Magic Johnson* 48.61 1988-89 19. John Stockton 48.25 1998-99 20. Mark Jackson 48.24 1996-97 Even just using total assists, there are only 6 players who have had a season with more assists than he did last year. I'd say that's pretty good.
You really can't overlook how much time Chandler has missed this year.. Paul has had to play without a legit inside threat (West is more of a spot-up guy, though he does have a bit of an inside game) I like discussions. PointForward and ItsMyFault are just complete haters (same person?) Personally, I'd go Lebron, Wade, Paul as my top 3...Kobe and Dwight behind them. And if you asked GMs if they wanted Paul or Howard to start a team...I think you'd get a 50/50 split, or something in that range.
Percentage of points is flawed since it just indicates how much the PG dominates the ball. When watching Paul, I see he gets a lot of his assists by passing to jump shooter much like how Miller led the league when he was in cleveland. I say his numbers are skewed somewhat because of the system he plays in. I also say you can't compare Paul's point totals because the league changed the rules on how you can defend a perimeter player. Paul is definitely a great PG but he just doesn't impress me that much. I think he is overrated and not as good as Williams. I just don't buy into the hype. He still hasn't won a playoff series and only one really good regular season record which was last year.
The Hornets beat the Mavericks in 5 games then lost to the Spurs in 7 last postseason. And check out Paul's numbers from those 12 games: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/chris_paul/career_stats.html
Ever heard of the term "flash in the pan"? Some people thought Steve Francis would be one of the best PGs after his first couple of years. Shawn Kemp was once thought to be among the best of all time PFs. I know Francis is no Paul. The point is, there is no guarantee that a player can sustain high level of performance for a long time. You can't put on the "all time" designation on a player until he has played for a long time. In fact, I wouldn't put LeBron on the all time list yet. I would only say these guys have very good potential to be an all time great IF THEY CONTINUE TO PERFORM LIKE THIS.
Scoring's an indicator of selfishness, then, by that logic... Paul, IMO, is the best PG in the league, and may end up being the best of this generation. Saying that, I don't dismiss Deron Williams. I think he's top notch as well, but is slightly more reliant on Sloan's system which also makes better use of the fact that he shoots better than Paul. Paul is more of a creator, scoring and for others. I felt that Paul deserved (though wasn't going to have a real chance at getting) last year's MVP. That said, I don't think there's any discussion this year. It's LeBron, and then it's everyone else. Wade's been spectacular this year, but if I were picking guys to start a team, I'd take Paul over Wade. I think Howard won't get serious MVP buzz until he starts to dominate offensively. It is true that the Magic would be AWFUL without him anchoring the squad on both ends. Evan
Im A Rockets fan and honestly...i'll trade anyone on our team for chris paul....im not only a fan of the rockets , but the rockets not winning a 1st round playoff series in years has made me a fan of basketball in general... I remember when Chris Paul got drafted by the hornets on draft night. i think that Stephen a Smith on espn said it best, He will make Big Bird look good...dude is amazing..people on here are just very hateful of good players that arent on our home team...
Yet do a poll of DWill or CP3 from a RESPECT perspective. Both are extremely talented. Neither play for the Rockets. DWill will win in a landslide DESPITE playing for the Jazz. There is a reason for the "hate" and it aint that he plays for another team.
I was talking about the assists as a percentage of points scored. Again I think Paul is a great player. I just buy into the hype. He can't take over a game Wade, Lebron and Kobe can.
Any value case you can make for CP3 you can make for Wade as well. For that reason they almost cancel each other out. If you look at past MVP winners there's a direct correlation to W/L records which leads me to believe if the voters decide as they have in the past, it's going to be between LeBron and Kobe. I'm guessing LeBron wins because of his statistical advantage in that scenario. They're not going to award the MVP to a #7 seed. Let's not jump off the deep end here with some unintelligent anti-Dirk rant. I was just using the Dirk situation as an example. I guess the NBA's new standard practice is to award the MVP after the first round and given how awkward it was when he accepted the award at a press conference rather than in front of his home crowd, it probably still sticks out in the mind of voters. Despite how great CP3 is the Hornets aren't any good. Charles Barkley style: "Dey aint noo guuud". If they play the Spurs or somebody like that without homecourt advantage they're toast. All i'm saying is this won't help his already inferior MVP case. But yes, I agree he is definitely playing MVP-caliber ball so we're still on the same page here.
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I'm having a hard time not responding to this post. So, you're basically saying, if a PG gets his assists by passing to shooters who shoot the ball and then score, then that's not a good PG, but someone who is dominating the ball? I mean, you've basically just defined the assists. It's like saying Crhis Paul's assists don't count because they're assists....right, makes no sense. Might as well fault John Stockton for playing with Karl Malone all those years...or passing to an open Jeff Hornacek. I mean, if any coach/team has perfected an offensive system, it's Jerry Sloan - you could argue Stockton was a "system" PG as much as the next guy...but you wouldn't, because that's a stupid argument. The fact that New Orleans plays the way they do because of Chris Paul is a testament to how good he is, not a negative against him. he has his own style of play, and does it well, so the Hornets use that style. If he had Yao on his team, would his assist numbers go down? Maybe a bit, sure. But not a lot...frankly, Paul is the better offensive player and it's his style that the team would adjust to the most. Add in the fact that, ESPECIALLY when injured, as they have been this year, the Hornets really aren't that talented of a team, yet are still winning, and it's more impressive. Tyson Chandler may be great at alley-oops, but we're not talking Karl Malone out there...neither with David West. Or Peja...players with talent? Yes, definitely. But even injuries aside, their bench is thin as noted, and even with that, while they're the 7th seed, it's a whole 2.5 games back of the #2 seed...in the West. Moreover, you incorrectly pointed out his playoff record...which is 1-1, having won a series last year in the first round. Do I think CP3 is the best ever? No, of course not. On an individual season basis, which is all we can go on for a player so young in his career, you'd still take some of Oscar's, Magic's, Stockton's seasons above Paul's. But not all of them, that's for certain. But I would put Paul above Kevin Johnson, who never put up Pauls' rebounds or steals numbers in combination with the points and assists. Same with Nash. And I'd personally take Paul over Deron Williams every time. He puts up more points, rebounds assists, steals, fewer turnovers with better efficiency stats, in the same minutes per game and the two teams have virtually the same records, with similar injury problems with Utah having more depth and talent around Deron. There have been some great counter-points made. And the game certainly is played differently today. But I think it's impossible to argue with CP3's performance, statistics and results. My MVP voting would be: 1. Lebron 2. Paul 3. Wade 4. Kobe 5. Howard It might be a little odd putting Kobe way down at 4, but imo he suffers from too much talent around him - definitely the one guy in the league who can take over a game better than anyone else, though. Some may also find Wade behind Paul not making sense. Except again, Wade collects fewer boards, fewer assists, fewer steals, worse shooting %'s...he scores more, and he has taken a team with even less talent farther than most thought possible. But still 7 games worse then the Hornets. Wade and Paul are kind of a toss-up behind Lebron for me. I'll still stick with Paul as second, but could be convinced Wade should squeak ahead.
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^^rookie, stop posting that video. we don't need to see it multiple times in multiple threads...that's just trolling.
I agree with you. Lebron will probably be the mvp...but i was trying to make a case for who should be the mvp, and Paul should be in the discussion. I think the difference between the value of Wade and CP is that Paul has to spoon feed more of his teammates for them to score. Guys like Tyson Chandler, Sean Marks, Wright, Butler, and Armstrong are practically worthless on offense without him. And, we all know that 7th seed isn't that bad in the west. They're only 2 games from 3rd, 45 wins with about 10 games left doesn't sound like a bad team to me. I understand i wasn't being easy on Dirk but everything i said was true, Wacko Jacko put the clamps on him. If his team had been bounced out of the 1st round while he was putting up mvp numbers then it wouldn't have been as big a deal.
