I hope you don't mean by Francis being "our man for the next..." that he remains the focal point of the offense. Even when he's "back," the offense should not be run through him. The fact that we even have to wait for him to be "back" is concern enough. Steve's a great talent, but he is streaky -- and that's really no fault of his own. The fact is, a big man -- especially one with a great shooting touch -- will be a lot less vulnerable to streaky shooting than a guard. The "black-hole-like" reference was an unfortunate choice of words -- doesn't exactly make me look forward to their return.
<blockquote><hr>Originally posted by Rockets2K LOL...You dont remember your own posts? OK..which is it, do you want ppl to call you an ass or not? </blockquote> you said "don't be an ass". that's whimpy and insecure. I said,..."why does noone call me an asswhole." There's a difference... <blockquote><hr> Take tonite for example. He took 18 shots..hit what? about 55%? <hr></blockquote> What worked tonight is we ISOd Ming on the wing in 50% of our possession with him playing, more or less. We did not run the offense entirely through him like Hakeem. The other thing you should note is how we guarded Duncan. We fronted Duncan and doubled him as much as possible. I soooooo bad want Yao to be a 20/10 player and have predicted it before the season, but I expect any 20/10 player to be denied like Duncan by fronting zones...that is where we need Francis to have an offense strategy as well. We cannot turn Francis into Kenny Smith. We can do better. Great WIN....great exploitation of Yao...keep exploiting him until defenses stop it...and Rudy....have something ready for when Yao is denied an entry pass. Did anyone else notice the play the Spurs do when we front Duncan and they throw a perfect pass over it and Yao comes over to help....Duncan immediately passes to a cutting Robinson... well, that play never once worked tonight for Duncan and Robinson....Can we pull that off with Yao passing to a cutting Kenny or Mo??? Denying stars happens. You must be smarter than that...and that's where Francis comes in.
Yao does need to get the ball. And i do think that Yao can eventually shoot 60+% on jumpers alone. I think with his discipline, his sweet shooting stroke can only improve over time. Along with his footwork and pump fakes. And he will eventually get 20+ (good) shots. Shaq and Kobe BOTH have been getting around 20+ the last three years. It's just a matter of the offense being designed around specific players. And i don't mean it has to be like Wilt Chamberlain's situation when he averaged 50 points a game. Once Yao is constantly able to maintain good position (less than 12 feet from the basket), there will be no such thing as a bad shot outside of double/triple teams. So you will either get 20+ good shot attempts or < 20 shot attempts, but numerous assist attempts. Either way, because of Yao, many points will be scored .
Heh, I had a feeling some people would pick on the black hole thing. I was a little afraid to use it... it was the strongest force I could think of. Anyways, first off, Francis normally isn't that streaky lately. That's the thing! Last year, almost EVERY game where his head wasn't pounding, he was very effective on offense. Yeah, the jumpshots that he takes should make him streaky, but he's normally a lot more consistent than this. This is the longest cold streak he's ever had, and I don't think anyone can explain it. He was lighting it up early in the season and most of last year, and I'm saying I think he'll return to form soon. And I hope it didn't sound like I was saying Francis should stay the focal point because that's definitely not what I was suggesting, but I guess I can see why it'd seem that way. I said "while" cuz I'm really not sure (nor should any of us be) how long it'll take for Ming to be established fully in this league. Maybe a week, maybe 2 years. When it happens, sure, Francis becomes the second option, but that's one hell of a second option. That's all I'm saying... just a pointless post about how awesome I hope this team will be very soon. But you make it sound like you're giving up on Francis. Ming is great, like I said, but without Francis, we're still going no where...
Actually....I said "Now you're being an ass" In my book, thats a nice way of telling someone they are being an assh*le.(if thats possible) Doesnt matter anyway, I was yanking ur chain on that one. Which is a good thing. I never advocated running the Hakeem offense in this case. I firmly believe that the best way to keep our opponents off-guard is to mix it up...We have too many potent weapons to depend on one guy to make ALL of our offense. I would like to see YM get his hands on the ball at least 2/3 of the time, even if all he does is draw the defense away from their man so that he can pass to a cutter or a spotup shooter. If noone else is hitting, well then, we need him to shoot the rock as often as he feels he can hit the shot. but thats the thing, They tried denying YM the ball by fronting him, it wasnt that effective.. With his height advantage, just toss the ball up and let him get it. He isnt going to have guys with the size and skill level of the Spurs on him every night. Sure, he is going to have nights where his touch is off, or someone is effective in keeping him out of his comfort zone...but those night will be few and far between. Im in agreement on that. I think the only difference we really have on this subject is my contention that most defenses wont be able to significantly effect his shooting percentage. He didnt shoot that well for him last nite..but then again, isnt SA one of the top defenses in the league? He had 3 skilled 7 footers all over him all nite, and he *still* managed 56% on 18 shots. Im actually more thrilled with the way he played than his stats at the end. He was aggressive going after rebounds, and did a pretty good job keeping the towers from doing what the do best, rebounding.
Understood. And no, I'm not giving up on Francis, nor am I saying he becomes the second option necessarily -- the only thing we can assert is that the offense should be initiated through Yao. I don't know if we're going no where without Francis, but of course getting to the finals would be a lot harder without him. It's just great though to have dominant players in both the front and back court, after all those years of having to settle for one or the other.
I Rest My Case -- (Follow up to GET YAO THE BALL!) Against the Spurs... Y. Ming 10-18 shots (55.6%) for 28 points 7-7 Free throws (100%) 18 boards 2 turnovers (amazingly low number) 3 blocks One thing that I want everyone to notice is the following: 1. Ming took 18 shots. That translated into more trips to the line. 2. In order to take 18 shots, Ming had to be closer to the basket. That translates into more rebounds. 3. Yao had only 2 turnovers, which, for a big man is a pretty low number, especially a guy as young as he is. 4. Yao took a lot of shots which also forces the big men on the other team to PLAY DEFENSE, which wears them down. And, finally... 5. He did all this against Duncan and Robinson (and Kevin Willis) -- three of the bigger, stronger players in the league. Please also accept my apologies for getting the number of years of Steve's career wrong. I was in a hurry to write the post and didn't stop to think too long about it. So, thanks for the correction on that.
Rockets2K, Didn't you think he had "3 skilled centers" playing him <b>man-to-man</b> all game? He didn't see much in the way of zones, and I didn't see the fronting with help from a center behind much like we threw at Duncan. You really think it is hopeless...that he is unguardable already like Jabbar? Even with zones? You don't think teams can take the ball out of his hands? I think he's going to have to move to the high post to guarantee he can run the show against all defenses. That's pure guess and suspicions.
You would have seen it clearer than I, afterall, you were there. Tho, I could have sworn I saw them tryin to front him late in the game, was I just imagining? I dont think its hopeless...I really dont think he is absolutley unguardable (I wish) but do you honestly think soo highly of the zone D that you believe that players that are much less skilled than SA's would have a hope of keeping YM from playin his game? Logic dictates that YM should be successful against players that are a) much shorter, and b) not as skilled at defense than Dunc, Mermaid, Willis. We havent even seen how good he really can be yet. Just glimpses.. I'll end this by stating the obvious. Take my opinions in the spirit they are offered, I havent played organized ball since jr. high..and I dont have the time to keep up with all things sports like most here do. Thats why I normally dont contribute much to the better discussions around here. I read and absorb much..but I still dont have the stuff to be able to state unequivocally that my opinions will be or are fact. They are nothing more than an uninformed opinion based on logic as I see it.
Obviously it's easy to say now "Get Ming the ball" now that Ming has had a month of learning the system. The last month was basically Ming's training camp.
Just for the record... The reason I posted a follow-up thread was because there is a lot of bickering going on in this thread that was getting kind of nasty at times. Just wanted to start with a clean slate. Anyway, yes, he didn't shoot 66% for the game, but I still think the point has been proven -- as soon as Yao becomes the hub of the offense, the Rockets will be a playoff contender. Until then, we will stay in the lottery or at the very best the bottom 2 seeds in the West.
I disagree. Yao can pass from anywhere, and he is already showing flashes of Hakeem-like accuracy with the baseline fade from the post. If you move him to the high post, he isn't as much of a threat, and it allows the other team's center to sag off a little bit. Keeping him in the low post makes the other team have to commit extra defenders. That opens the door for the other players. The other point is that when someone does drive the hole, or jack up an open outside shot, Ming can get better position for an offensive rebound. Keeping him in the high post would be more of the same for the Rockets, who have been running that high-post type offense with Cato on and off for two seasons.
Oh, I see what you are trying to say... I was stating the obvious!!! Well, I'm glad it's obvious to you, I was just hoping that maybe it would soon become obvious to the Rockets players and coach.
<blockquote><hr>Well, I'm glad it's obvious to you, I was just hoping that maybe it would soon become obvious to the Rockets players and coach.<hr></blockquote> And one of those players is Yao Ming. He said in the paper that the difference in him versus earlier is he is a lot more confident, and he is more confortable knowing what to do. <blockquote><hr>Originally posted by Axeman I disagree. Yao can pass from anywhere, and he is already showing flashes of Hakeem-like accuracy with the baseline fade from the post. If you move him to the high post, he isn't as much of a threat, and it allows the other team's center to sag off a little bit.<hr></blockquote> So-called "bickering" was just about statistics and nothing else. No less that 5 people thought it worth discussing ... since your math was kinda silly. What else was there to discuss besides everyone agreeing with the obvious. At least your thread got a lot of hits rather than a chorus of "I agree" "We all agree" "I say it each night in Chat: GET YAO THE DAMNED BALL" What interests me most though is the anticipation of the Hakeem offense being stopped. And how do we respond. We all agree that Dump it to Yao and milk that when it works. But it is only prudent to expect it to get smothered, so we should be prepared to play some motion, as well. Do you disagree that we should be prepared to play 5-man ball?? I like how we are mixing it up with using Francis and Moochie more than Kenny Smith. Yao on the wing, as we see, is a great way to start the dynasty, but I want more. The motion offense we saw in the 2nd Q against Dallas to get Yao easy buckets at the rim, is very powerful as well, and produced 10-12 shooting. As for the final use of Yao (beyond this year), Rudy keeps mentioning Sabonis and Divac. They are high post passers. You must at least agree that the High Post is a superior passing position than the wing. That is the basics of how Walton won a championship on 18ppg, 52% and 5 assists, when Jabbar was failing to make the playoffs on 27ppg, 57% and 5 assists playing from the wing. A center in the high post is also the basis of Princeton's offense. The reason is clear: The high post can pass much more effectively to the whole court, there are more passing lanes, starting with the fact there indeed are two backdoor angles to the basket, whereas the wing position only has one.
I am also hoping the long term use of Yao's passing skills is primarily from the high post. Watch the game yesterday again, especially when Yao has it in the Low Block, he makes some great shots (No moves to rack) and you get the occasional cut from the guard at the top (Mooches lay-up) we need more of this. But really there is limited movement when the ball goes into the low block, damn Rudy, there are so many cuts/screens/movements that can be done by the other players on weakside when the player in the low block has the ball, this team doesn't have the shooters to have 3 players stand on weakside and watch Yao. If i was an opposition coach and Yao got hot in the low block, i would just go zone, you can double Yao easier and watch those guys standing still on the weakside, plus you can take away the other 40% of offense the two man game. We need some weakside action to make our offense better and enable us to counter the zone. So hopefully getting Ming more at the high post gives us more of the Steve rub/UCLA cut play and more backdoor cuts on both side especially the weakside.
