He coached 2 seasons after the NBA finals appearance. He didn't have a great team, and thats the main reason why he couldn't get back to the finals. ****, he had an average team for half of his tenure, but they still were among the top in the East despite being in a weaker conference, they still would have been an easy playoff team in the West. The whole "quitting" thing is ridiculous. I could turn around and say Rudy Tomjanovich "quit" on his team according to the press reports, but we both know either aren't true for different reasons. The Knicks quit on JVG, not the other way around.
I love it how you confuse stats with talent. Who would you rather have: Francis or Baker? Francis. Who would you rather have: Yao or Robinson? Yao. Who would you rather have: Mobley or Day? Mobley. Who would you rather have: Taylor or Edwards? Taylor. Who would you rather have: Cato or Avent/Benjamin? Cato. Who would you rather have: Rice or Brickowski/Edwards? Rice. Hopefully, I have just made it alot easier for you to understand the difference between stats and talent.
It's so easy to make that statement now. When they were playing with the Bucks: Vin Baker was considered one of the best young PF's in the league. Glenn Robinson was (NOT Rookie of the Year - thanks NYK) but a former #1 pick. Todd Day was considered a solid player. Stay within the context of the times. Of course it's not completely comparable but it is a much more fair comparison than comparing them to the Blazers who have not missed the Playoffs since 1981. The Bucks were considered a young team with a good core group of talented players similiar to what people are saying about the Rockets now.
Although I agree with you in saying they are more comparable to the Bucks than the Blazers, Kidd and Hill split it that year.
Actually it was 2 seasons and 19 games after his NBA finals appearance. All I mean by that is that he did start the 3rd season and did have a 3rd attempt at getting back to the finals but he quit. Every team in the East was horrific not just the Knicks. Rudy T did not quit on his team he got bladder cancer. That is quite a bit different than walking out on your team with only 19 games played into a season. Damn that is not even in the same park unless you think this whole bladder thing is just a big lie. And if you are telling me that Van Gundy's team quit on him then I damn sure don't want the guy as a head coach.
His team didn't quit on him. Management did. Just look at the transactions leading to him "quitting".
We know now that this view of him was inaccurate. He obviously was an overacheiver under Dunleavy and is clearly not the type of player a team is built around. That is a fact. Glenn Robinson WAS NOT the ROY. Get your facts straight. Lets revisit that draft. Hill and Kidd were the co-ROYs. So looking back, was Robinson deserving of a #1 that year? Nope. Day was a journeyman. With the exception of one year on a talentless team, Day was a backup. At best, he should be 8-10 on a team's depth chart. He started on that team, which proves my point that that team had no talent. Picking out stats where he had the best year of his career (because he was a starter and got mins because there was no other talent that could replace him) does not support your theory that Day was a solid player. Funny how you should say this. You pick out players stats from times that make them look better than they were. You say stay within the context of the times, but use a 22 year wide window? lol We are comparing the talent levels of the current Rockets to that of the Buck teams under Dunleavy and Blazer teams under Dunleavy. The Buck teams, 1-8, were nowhere near close to the debth of the Rockets. The Rockets are solid 1-8 and so were Dunleavy's Blazer teams. This is obviously your opinion. Looking back, that judgement of their talent was way off and you know it is.
Regardless of how easy it is to make that statement the fact is that not even you would trade this current Rockets team for that Bucks team. It's not even close. The Rockets have some outstanding talent that has missed the play-offs with 45 wins and 43 wins in 2 of the last 3 years missing the play-offs by 1 game both times. The Bucks of 94 won 34 games! The Rockets have a player (Yao Ming) that many say may be the next dominant player in the league after Shaq retires. The Bucks had no one to compare to that even in potential!
I can't believe people are saying that Dunleavy isn't a good coach because he couldn't control the Blazers players. Couldn't control those nutjobs? The POLICE couldn't control those players! Look at the coaches that have gone through their, PJ Carlisimo, a noted disciplinarian, couldn't control them. Maurice Cheeks and old-school tough-as-nails coach can't control those guys. Yet Dunleavy is the only one of those guys to get the Blazers deep into the playoffs, he got them to the WCF TWICE. That's a team with straight-up headcases like Damon Stoudemire, Rasheed Wallace, Isiah Rider, Bonzi Wells and Ruben Patterson. I wouldn't mind Dunleavy. Listen to what the players said, he was to hard on them. He called out to many offensive plays? What the hell, aren't we b*tching that we need discipline and a diversed offense? This guy is an outstanding coach, the only other guy to have success with the Blazers? Rick Adelman. Dunleavy could be just the ticket for this team. He stresses defense, he disciplines the players, he runs a diversed offense and he's battle-tested. Not a bad consolation prize!
Some forget that the Knicks were just about to replace Van Gumby(I love that) with Phil Jackson before VG pulled a rabbit out of his arse and led the 8th seed Knicks to the Finals. Even though VG denied today in a Newark newspaper that he made those comments to Vecsey regarding Paxson and PT for LeBron, I think VG was just covering his a$$. He was infamous in NY for leaking such info to the press. VG is just a little weasel....Dunleavy wins the job by default.
Exactly. It's a miracle what Van Gundy did. Took a team with a frontline that consisted of an injury prone, underachieve PF and an oft injured aging former great center, without a PG and with an undersized SF got them into the playoffs as an 8 seed, they barely got into the playoffs by the way, and knocked out the #1 seed and stormed to the NBA Finals at a time when the East was solid from top to bottom. Then he followed that up with a trip to the conference finals with the same team. Then management just screwed that team up so badly that they got worse and worse. The Knicks should be a playoff caliber team next year, but it's been 2 years since they were that and that's all on management. They quit on that guy.
<i>Even though VG denied today in a Newark newspaper that he made those comments to Vecsey regarding Paxson and PT for LeBron, I think VG was just covering his a$$. He was infamous in NY for leaking such info to the press. </i> I'm sorry if I had to decide who was telling the truth Peter Vescey or Jeff Van Gundy I would say Van Gundy hands down. Heck, if I had to choose between Peter Vescey and the Devil I would decide that the Devil was telling the truth before I would believe Peter "Steve Francis and Mobley for Shaq because my sources say it" Vescey.
You don't want a coach that doesn't let management control his coaching decisions? What world are you living in? I think Vescey was telling the truth in this media escapade, and thats a rarity. JVG just doesn't want to bad mouth Cavs management, it just wouldn't look right.
That is an absolutely ridiculous statement. There is not 1 single person in the league that would claim the Rockets have more depth and talent than the premier teams in the league. We are so deep that Moochie Norris, one of the worst players in the NBA is our #1 backup in a 3 guard rotation. There is a consensus that Sacramento, Dallas, Los Angeles Lakers, San Antonio, even Portland all have more talent than the Rockets. The Rockets at best are similiar to Phoenix and Minnesota. That means under even the rosiest scenario, we're a 5th or 6th seed. That's comparable to Mike Dunleavy's Portland's teams? Give me a break. Here's a preview of the 2000-2001 NBA Season An opposing team's scout sizes up the Blazers: "If i have to choose, I'll take Portland over the Lakers. ... The Blazers don't just have numbers up front, they have quality. Shaquille O'Neal has never seen this many skilled big men coming at him. These aren't a bunch of Joe Kleines . ... Scottie Pippen isn't capable of carrying a team, never has been. He doesn't have the personality or the consistent offensive game to be the go-to guy. But the Blazers are different. They're always going to have a mismatch somewhere, so depending on the opponent, they have four or five guys who could be the one they go to . ... Don't forget Bonzi Wells . He can give a lot of guards trouble with his post-up ability. ... Greg Anthony should be the starter at point guard. He's a better defender than Damon Stoudamire , and the Blazers already have plenty of scorers. ... The big question here is about Mike Dunleavy . You hear rumblings that not all the players respect him enough to completely buy into how he decides to distribute the minutes. If that's true, Portland could be in trouble. You think this year's Rocket talent level is similiar to a Portland team that most people considered one of the deepest in the league?
What makes you think Francis will have a better career than Glenn Robinson? They are both scorers with 1 dimensional games who haven't accomplished anything in the post season. They can put up nice stats but their teams are usually mediocre. Mobley vs. Baker- Hmmm, aren't we trying to get rid of Mobley or sit him on the bench? Aren't we trying to limit his minutes with Steve? I think that says enough. Your other comparisons with Mo Taylor, Cato, and Rice are a joke. These guys are mostly worthless. The only difference is Yao, he is the lone factor that makes this team better.
Did you just say MoT was worthless? Last yr. he was our best player in the 4th Q. He may not be the best rebounder but he is far from worthless. Cato is overpayed but he is the best back up C in the league. Better than Blue Edwards and A.Avent c'mon. Yes, we are trying to move Mobley or make him a 6th man like the Microwave like when he finished second in 6th man voting. No one has ever spoke of Todd Day in that way. Just face it everyone, the '03-04 Rox are better than the '94-95 Bucks, and guess what? That's a good thing.
No matter what happens, Dunleavy won't be here for long. I see a max of 4 years before Dunleavy gets canned for underachieving.
heck if dunleavy and jvg are so bad, why dont we get carlisle? it may be more of a gamble, but if it pays off we may have a coach for the next 20 years.
