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[Germany] Schroeder - Ich bin ein crybaby

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by gwayneco, Oct 12, 2005.

  1. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Good point. I've also wondered about the meaningfulness of unemployment rate tallied in US. While I think it is perfectly OK to compare the URs in U.S. at different times under the same/different administration, it's not a good idea to use only UR as a barometer to compare economic situations in different nations (even among industralized ones), unless the URs are calibrated in the same way.
     
  2. real_egal

    real_egal Member

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    I admit it's not smart and right to bash US in his farewell speech. I am disputing the notion to dismiss "social model" totally based on Schroder's US bashing. I know it's fashionable to bash French before, but more in a joking and light way. I can feel a lot stronger (e.g. Freedom's Fries) in recent years. It wasn't fashionable to bash Germany before SPD won the election. They are SPD, their ideals are very different than US, so it's natural for Schroeder to bash US. It's also perfectly normal for US politicians and bbsers to bash him. But I am just saying it's not wise to dismiss their "social model" once for all, just because of the bashing. Because the model has proven some success in Northern European countries and countries like Germany.
     
  3. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Lol. That's funny. It reminds me of: "Good morning class. A certain... agitator... for privacy's sake let's call her...Lisa S. No, that's too obvious... uuuh, let's say L. Simpson."
     
  4. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    Yes there is a difference but you have to consider the European heatwave was spread across several countries with different public health systems and also that unlike the US Europeans don't have that much Air Conditioning since on average Europe is much cooler than the US. To somehow blame Europes and Germany in particular, social system for not preventing the amount of deaths in the heatwave is off base. Especially considering that the US hasn't shown it can deal with a deadly heatwave that well either.
     
  5. AroundTheWorld

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    I don't think too much is going to change in Germany. The last elections sucked because the social democrats are still part of the government.
     
  6. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Well why shouldn't Shroeder blast the US for the fiasco in New Orleans that makes us look more like Haiti than an advanced state in Western Europe.

    Almost daily I see headlines such as "Bush, Cheney, Bolton, Rice etc." **** "criticize, urge, tell, express disappointment over" **** "Canada, France, Germany, Russia, China, Bulgaria, Timor, wherever" ***** doing whatever, like they are entitled to dictate to the whole world what to do.

    Oh no. Horror another country or leader suggests all is not well in the USA. What horror!! Only we should be entitled to do that.
     
  7. 111chase111

    111chase111 Member

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    The way I understand it is unemployment is defined as people who want work but can't find it. So, if you are not working but don't want a job you are not defined as unemployed. That's why the unemployment rate goes up when the economy starts to get better: People who were previously not looking for work (because the economy was bad and they resigned themselves to not working) start looking for work. Since they (now) want employment but don't have it they are defined as unemployed.

    From the U.S. Department of Labor

    "The basic concepts involved in identifying the employed and unemployed are quite simple:
    People with jobs are employed.
    People who are jobless, looking for jobs, and available for work are unemployed.
    People who are neither employed nor unemployed are not in the labor force."

    Also:

    "Who is counted as unemployed?
    Persons are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work."


    I don't think it has anything to do with whether you receive benefits or not (although they keep track of people claiming unemployment benefits as a measure of the economy).
     
  8. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    During Shroeder's tenure Germany became the #1 exporter in the world, surpassing the US despite having a fraction of the population and GDP. US job creation since 2001 has been largely service sector based, particularly of the unskilled variety. The backbone of any economy is manufacturing. About 70% of US GDP is comprised of consumer spending.

    The average German has a 10% savings rate. The average American has a slightly negative to zero percent savings rate.

    The US federal government has racked up an additional $3 TRILLION (more than 50% increase) in national debt in just a few short years. This liquidity has fueled an enormous housing bubble whilst positioning the stability of our currency at the hands of the Chinese government. The German national debt of about $1.4 TRILLION has increased also, but at only a small fraction of the percentage that ours has. The Euro has gained ~30% versus the US Dollar in just a few years.

    Over the past 2 years, the DAX is a straight line up. The DOW has gone nowhere for 2 years.

    IMO, Germany's economy is not much worse off than ours. And if their central banks had been re-flating as much as ours, their unemployment situation would undoubtedly look different (short-term of course). The main problem I see for Germany is their shrinking and aging population. Over the long haul, immigration here in the States (both legal and illegal) should give us a healthy population growth rate and provide for lots of young workers able to pay into the tax pool for all the seniors' benefits. In a few decades, Germany will be trying to squeeze tax dollars out of a minority of its population in order to fund the social programs for a majority population of retirees.
     
  9. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Talk about selectively pulling data to suit your needs.... You could stand a class in introductory economics and finance. Introductory - nothing above that level, because you clearly aren't prepared for that.
     
  10. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    Biggie, what are you doing up so late?? Don't you have a paycheck day job to get to brite & early in the morn? Mr. Lumburgh is not going to be happy w/ any tardiness. And don't forget to attach a coversheet to those TPS reports - you can use your special red stapler ;)
     
  11. real_egal

    real_egal Member

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    Thanks for clearing it up for me. I was too lazy to look up the exact definition of unemployment rate in US. However, according to the guideline, this rate is actually about people who are without work but PROVEN-actively-seeking-work, so it should be less than the actual UNEMPLOYEED numbers. In conclusion, this 5% isn't really half of that 10%. Of course, it's very unlikely and NOT true as far as I know, but in theory and logic, that 5% could be even higher than that 10%. :)
     
  12. real_egal

    real_egal Member

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    You should have known by now, or long long long time ago, that he will only throws in one liners to question your data, demands you to provide another "credible" source he approves, accuses you of uneducated, unpatriotic, lazy, socialist, communist, or terrorists-sympathizer or troop-hater. One thing he would never do is to actually come up with some data or logic reasoning to debate your viewpoint or support his own. Oh, right, he will also order everyone else to carry on, warn you that your credibility is on the line, and of course he would thank you in advance so politely, albeit he is a vocal advocater of killing and torturing.
     

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