You enjoy your constitution rights, great. Good for you. But that merely highlights the point that certain Chinese posters had all along, that "freedom of speech" is merely one somewhat more liberal part on a sliding scale, that "freedom" really isn't free. I hope I don't need to define for you what free means. If we are to take "free" to be so qualified, then China has "freedom of speech" too. The Chinese are entitled to whine all they want about all national policies in their backyard. Lately they've even been allowed to do it, some of the time, in public media too. And you know the funny thing, you could say a dissident being tossed in labour camp had freedom of speech too. After all, he/she was tossed in there AFTER he/she publicly criticize the government huh? Well gee, didn't Chinese dissidents get arrested AFTER the criticized the government? I reckon their rights were granted. And you forgot to put quotes around "freedom of speech." Not a shocking revelation coming from a moron though. Btw, I'm still waiting for your response in the "China faked the Olympics" thread.
It seems like the chinese people know that their news are biased. It's sad that Westerners would defend something like this. Hypocrisy.
In order to say that there is free speech in China, you have to redefine the terms of the debate so as to remove them of all meaning. "Free speech" must mean "controlled speech", employing a classic Orwellian device. "War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength"
Otto made the distinction already. In regards to private businesses yes but the government no. Under freedom of speech and association the government can't fire you in general for political beliefs. Obviously to an extant as the government has outlawed membership in certain groups like Al Qaeda.
There's a serious flaw in your argument. Criminal laws only take affect after a crime is committed. Since we don't live the world of Minority Report there is no such thing as pre-crime. Under your argument you could say that people allowed to commit murder since murders aren't caught and tried until AFTER they commit murder. To get this back on subject though I think what you are missing is the distinction between private actions and governmental actions in regard to rights. The idea of free speech, as it appears to be the case in both the US and Germany, is a constraint on the government and private individuals and businesses can limit free speech as they see fit. For example on Clutch fans if Clutch deems what you are saying to be offensive he can ban you. The difference is that Clutch can't arrest you and the US government can't step in and arrest you either, with a few exceptions. Its Clutch's right to free speech and free association to decide what passes as acceptable speech and also who he will associtate, employ, or allow to post on Clutchfans. Clutch's rights as a private individual are as important as the rights of everyone elses. So while the government can't sanction you for exercising your rights Clutch is certaintly entitled under his rights to sanction you when you are on his property, cyber or otherwise.
Before you went on your rant, you'd be well to note the problem with your argument is that, I don't claim that China has "freedom of speech." Which is all fine and good, except that in one case you are punished for saying things, and in the other case, you are punished for... saying things. When you limit what people can say or cannot say, then punish those who step out of line, you are by definition, weakening the hand of dissenting opinions. And guess what, that fits perfectly with the argument of Chinese posters that in China you have controlled speech and suppressed opinions, while in the west, you are too brainwashed to have one. So perhaps instead of so called free speech, one could say "free speech," or maybe freer speech.
The reporter went on air and lied -- strong decision by the Germans to suspend her duties. If the same thing happened in China she would be in a reeducation work camp for the next decade. Advantage Germany
You mean if she told the truth and said that China invaded Tibet and is a tyrannicaly regime (that would be the truth, not a lie) - then the Chinese would probably have her "disappear". I think our Chinese friends here don't understand what a free press is and what the freedom of speech is. That's understandable. They don't have it.
Of course that's the great irony here. If you express hostility toward the U.S. gov't, a private company can get rid of you and thus the only one you can work for is in fact the U.S. gov't.
Until the Chinese can use mind reading techniques to arrest people BEFORE they criticize the government that's just going to continue to be a weakness of the Chinese Communists. You don't understand freedom of speech even a little bit, not even after it's been explained to you over and over again in this thread. Not a shocking revelation that you're that ignorant and that you'd continue to name call people who've demonstrated that they know a lot more about the subject than you do.
You are either a liar or a complete idiot: The Chinese government can, at their discretion, throw you in jail for merely expressing yourself. No qualifiers. In western nations, this is not so. Of course, there are minor exceptions, like in Germany with regard to Holocaust speech, but that does not come close to the level of control and censorship present in China. In China it is the rule, rather than the exception, that government may control speech. As for private enterprises firing their employees for saying stuff they don't like, they are merely expressing their own right to free expression. You can't have freedom of speech if you control the expression of private companies. Duh. Well there is the concept of prior restraint. This actually illustrates a stark difference between the US (and I presume other western nations) and China on free speech issues. Here, we have a presumption of unconstitutionality against such forms of censorship. China, of course, has no such presumption.
The central issue is that there'd be a fresh supply of petite organs for those who need it, namely the rich and powerful.
Except that she didn't go on the air and lie. As I've already pointed out, everything she said on the air is, as a matter of fact, factual. It's only lies in your own little jerk off corner. You know, the last time I checked, Tibet was already a part of China and was in fact, recognized as a part of China when they allegedly "invaded." The other funny thing is, in a recent poll, most Chinese people are happy with their government. Authoritarian, sure. Tyrannical, HA. Actually I think your Chinese friends understand perfect. That there is no such thing as "freedom of speech." Now this part is just funny. Let me use an inflection: "Until the west can use mind reading techniques to fire people BEFORE they criticize the government that's just going to continue to be a weakness of the brainwashed westerners." Or perhaps you are implying that people in the west can mind read. You know, this coming from a moron who doesn't possess even the most basic reading comprehension skills, is just funny... and ironic. Please, go ahead and show where I said China has "freedom of speech." To make it simpler for you I went ahead and posted my quote for you below: Or perhaps you are merely too stupid to under stand what "if we are to take free to be so qualified" means. I suppose I can't look down upon you for that the same way I can't look down upon the mentally challenged. In your little bit of rant, you neglected to mention the fact that the majority of Chinese who voice their disapproval DON'T actually get tossed in jail (that is unless you think that China only has couple hundred who disapprove of governmental policies). So it's a far cry from your pathetic claim that censorship arrests in China is the rule instead of the exception. So the worst you could have said is that Germany censors a little, China censors a bit more. And in other news, Xinhua doesn't manipulates the news. It is merely expressing its own right to free expression. Oh wait, Xinhua's not good enough? How about Yangcheng Daily, China daily, etc. Happened a while ago but, please do tell the same to Germans and Japanese during WWII, or perhaps the Commies and sympathizers during the Red Scare.
Indeed: Now of course, the difference between me and the brainwashed idiots in the west is that I don't make this to be any more than an isolated incident compared to alleged Chinese organ harvesting, which they have yet to prove.
Somebody needs to report these postings to MFW's work visa sponsor - this type of dangerous behavior is disruptive to American National Unity and Harmony.
All I can say is what MFW said represents what Yao Ming thinks. So maybe a Chinese Exclusion Act II can be initiated from CF.net.
