Is either side "right" or "wrong"? The Marlins won a world series, and had some winning seasons after that, by trading high priced players for prospects, drafting high, and promoting the players aggressively. When they tried to be big spenders, and sign high priced free agents to coincide with the new stadium, they flopped. Now they've gone back to the previous strategy... equipped with more cash from a better stadium situation. Its an inexact science to say the least. While the Rays have had success, they just as easily could have had a run of misfortune like the Pirates/Royals. They also were horrible for 10 consecutive years (a longer stretch than either the Astros or Marlins have ever had) before the last 6 years of success. They will eventually hit a bad crop of prospects (or overpay on a high priced contract), and the cycle will repeat itself.
Agree that Tampa won't continue to have success with the way they run things. Hard to compare our situation, or any teams really, to the Florida baseball teams. So much of the population down there is from up north and already have ties to other baseball teams, it's a tough place to draw for 81 games. Heck, you even mention how the Marlins are equipped with more cash from a better stadium situation, and even with that new stadium they drew less fans than the Astros last year . . .with a brand new stadium. . . .they were next to last in attendance, ahead of only . . .Tampa At least here we have a chance to return to years of great baseball in the future . .not a guarantee, but a chance. . .in miami they have little chance of that ever being the case
i didn't realize winning 2 Championships in 18 years is something to scoff at. thanks for clearing that up for me. yes, we need to be more like the Rays!
Sorry, I can't recall an elite prospect; such as Springer, not even having a cup of coffee by the age of 24 (going on 25)...
Did you really just suggest that the Marlins were a model franchise solely on the basis of how quickly they've been able to win more than one World Series
Since the Marlins were founded in 1993, only 11 MLB teams have won a championship. The Marlins are part of that group. Do the math.
Only 2 teams since the Marlins have been founded have won more Championships than the Fish... During that span the Cardinals have won the same amount as the Marlins, just as the Giants. So laugh... Laugh away. Hope you like your head in the sand!
Ryan Howard didn't come up till 24, and was 25 when he was called up for good... then again, the Phillies had only one place they could put him without a DH spot being available, and it was occupied by still-very-productive Jim Thome. Low and behold, Howard wins the MVP, and is super-elite, in his first full season (a sign that he would have likely been able to be very productive sooner than that.... much like Lance Berkman). However, now the Phillies are suffering from Howard having signed his big free agency deal as an "older" player at 32. So while they got super-elite production from him off the bat as a club-controlled player, they're now getting less than that (while paying a helluva lot more) as a retained homegrown player.
Good example, EXCEPT for the fact that he was being blocked by Jim Thome!!! Springer is straight up being blocked by wish-wash.
Well, agreed. I did mention Thome in my post... and you should know where I stand on this whole Springer fiasco. Trust me, there were several times where I was tempted to post the exact same thing you did (Springer being the oldest "stashed" player for service-time reasons), then I found that Howard started a season at AAA (as a 25 year old) coming off a year where he hit 46 minor league HR's. That being said, if Springer busts out like Howard did when he was eventually called up (ROY in his abbreviated first year, MVP the following year in his first full season), the comparisons will be even more apt, and nobody will remember this thread... (even though being elite right away doesn't mean they did the "right" thing).
So everything is going to be OK because Ryan Howard's story? I respect your opinion, and you clearly know baseball. But, IMO, the Astros handling of Springer is inexcusable. Crane's shrewd business tactics go beyond television negotiations. He's a worst case scenario owner, and I can see why so many GM candidates refused to interview for the Astros job.
I didn't say no player ever comes up early. There are, of course, plenty of examples that do. But there are also plenty of players that do not. It's not like the Astros are unique in their use of the Super-2 system. Every team uses it on a regular basis. If the players don't like it, they have the option to negotiate a change when they redo the CBA every few years. But as it is, that's how the system is designed and teams should take advantage of it to manage their payroll as best as possible. The Astros are running their franchise like Oakland or Tampa Bay with the luxury of actually having the money to spend when they need it - that's the best possible combination of all worlds. The last thing you want to do is throw money away for fun now and then be hamstrung when you need it when the team is good. The Marlins have had great success, but they are unable to ever sustain it because they have to keep trading away their players as they near free agency. Bringing up Jose Fernandez was great for them last year and helped make them only the 2nd worst team in the majors. It will cost them 5 years from now when they lose him a year earlier than otherwise. Was it worth it?
I asked the same question - do you really care about Ks? They do because players that strikeout at a high rate in the minor leagues do not, generally, hit at the major league level. We grilled this subject at length; my impression: the Ks are a legitimate concern.
The problem with the Astros strategy however is that at some point if Springer is a high caliber player they'll want to try to sign him long term. If he's frustrated with their strategy of stashing him this long he may very well just blow them off and go elsewhere. The concept of "hometown discounts" is something that does happen and there'll be zero chance of that happening with Springer I'm guessing.
And if he were a Rocket everyone would be complaining that McHale doesn't play him because he is a rookie
Yeah... just interesting to see that one is basically a veteran and potential MVP candidate, while the other is being discussed in the context of being "rushed" and "not ready". Didn't realize they were so close together in age... actually makes me more excited that Harden's "best" years still could be yet to come vs. being disappointed at Springer's delayed debut.
Two quick points: 1) It's turns out that only 5.6% of current arbitration eligible players are (like Fernandez) on track to be eligible for free agency with exactly six full years of service time. And 60% of that 5.6% are relief pitchers. The way the Marlins handled Fernandez is far from the norm. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-myth-of-six-years-of-team-control/ 2) Also the two Marlins championship teams were not built by the Loria run front office that runs the current Marlins teams. Referencing those championships to prop up Loria is like saying James Dolan is a great executive because the Knicks had a great team in 1970.
Got my tickets to Sat. April 5th game at Round Rock. If anyone is interested, I have a code to get infield reserve tickets for the OKC series for 1/2 ($8 instead of 16). Just email me through the board and I'll forward you the email.
