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George Bush - a joke, right?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by ScreamingRocketJet, Aug 5, 2000.

  1. DUDE

    DUDE Member

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    Rocketman95,
    Maybe unbiased is the wrong word. Certainly what you read on his site you wont see on the TV news. Yes he has stuff against CLinton and Gore but he also has stuff against Bush. If you check it right now there is a link to an article about how a General in the Military thinks Bush is wrong on something, and another that has a link to an article about Cheney's daughter that is gay and how it might make life awkward for Cheney because of that. ( I havent read either yet however. I just got home)

    Rimbaud,
    I certainly dont believe I am naive or black and white according to the political parties. Please show me where I showed Bias to a certain Political party President. Yes, I am republican but I will vote for Bush because I truly think he and Cheney will do a much better job leading this country. However, I did not care for Bush senior. I did not care for Clinton, or Dole. I really can not stand Al Gore. My main thing at the beginning is that I have read alot of People bashing George W, when he hasnt even had anything to do yet. They assume he is dumb, yet he got the same grades as Al Gore when they were in College.
    A convention is a pep rally. Everyone should know that. But it seems like people were lambasting him for not saying much to the rest of America. That is because his main Aim was to the republicans. When Gore has his Convention it will be geared toward the democrats. You get the people of your party excited and let them help you get the undecideds.
    I do however, think that Ronald Reagan was a damn fine president. To me, a presidents Main job is to Lead the country from ahead and not disgrace the office. I know alot of you will not agree with me, but I think Clinton has disgraced the office. A little Luster is lost of the office.
    I dont vote straight down a party line on election day. I have voted over and over again for democrats like Mark Stiles and have voted against republicans such as Kay Bailey Hutchinson. So I think that shows that I am not naive per the political parties. But if you still think I am, I honestly dont care. As I think you are obviously naive about Clintons actions with China.
    As for your attempted humorous remark, I took it as ridiculing me for what I said. Contrary to you, I HONESTLY believe there is a correlation between star Wars and what happened with those sites. I might be wrong, but you might be wrong also. That is what makes America great.

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    "Her Box Started Buzzing Ever Since She Heard The CRÜE"
     
  2. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Contributing Member

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    Abortion?!? Again????

    If men got pregnant, abortion would be legal, readily available, and covered by most health insurance.

    Think about it.



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    Bring It!!
     
  3. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    Rocketman -- I think that's a serious oversimplification. There are people like myself who believe abortion is nothing short of murder. If you believe life begins at conception, then it's a snuffing out of life. In my opinion, the baby is an entirely separate being...so separate in fact that if it weren't for a womb, the mother's body and immune system would expel the baby immediately like it would a parasite. I truly have a hard time looking at those who were almost aborted and telling them that abortion is OK. So please don't make the accusation that my feelings would be different if I were a woman or if I could have babies..because the fact is that many women who are capable of having babies are also pro-life.

    I don't adopt DUDE's sentiments entirely...but I agree with the spirit of them. Clinton disgraced the office and he continues to do so to this very day. I've NEVER heard of a second-term president criticizing the former president and a candidate for the upcoming election. Presidents have generally had more dignity and more respect for the office than that. Ultimately, when viewed by historians among comparison to other presidents, I think that's what we'll see. I don't ask for a perfect president...but when someone swears to uphold the dignity of the office I'd rather him not get blow jobs from White House interns, lie under oath, sell the Lincoln bedroom to Chinese nationalists, be held in contempt of court, fire missiles at Sudan on days where key witnesses against him are giving depositions (what the hell was that?), etc. Comparisons to Reagan in the realm of dignity and respect for the office are laughable. Even Nixon had more respect for the office...at least he had enough shame to resign. Clinton seems to know no shame.

    What's funny is how many of my democrat and liberal friends hate Bill Clinton. They say he's hurt the party because of his image and his willingness to win for himself at the expense of his party and his own supporters.

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  4. sirhangover

    sirhangover Member

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    Welcome screaming rocket jet...

    I want to preface my post buy saying that i am neither republican nor democrat and I have not decided who i will vote for..that being said i am leaning towards gore simply because of the things that screamingrocket is talking about and people like you DUDE who scare me away from bush as well...

    so I say to DUDE and anyone else that wants to jump on our australian friends post...

    HE IS ONLY SPEAKING WHAT HE SEES AND HE IS ONLY COMMENTING ON THE GENERAL REACTION OF AUSTRALIANS TO THE JOKE THAT IS GEORGE BUSH..

    if thats what he sees as an outsider that what he sees DUDE...you cant make international perception of someone change because he lied under oath or whatever sour grapes sounding argument you make...

    to be fair DUDE..most foreigners do not have a full grasp on exactly on the 'nuts and bolts' of what happens politcally here.. okay he isnt the greatest president ever that goes without saying...They only take the big picture and sort of the overall view...

    their view and one that seems to echo from foreigners throughout the world that i have met and that is:

    clinton is not a bad guy..a good president..has done well for america..smart..better president than reagan could have ever dreamt of being..period...

    their view of the current w. bush is pretty much what our australian friend here is saying: a joke...

    again they are bottom lining it for us and looking at it from the outside..okay we dont care what some kiwi or aussie or any foreigner thinks right but what hes sayign speaks volumes of what the world will think of us and who we are as people behind our leader..do we want to look like a joke? at least we get respect with clinton..

    you may think the world doesnt exist past beaumont and to you it probably doesnt matter what world sentiment is..but the world is a big place and america aint what is used to be in the hey day..

    we need all the support internationally we can get and looking at the big picture from a bottom line type view we get the idea that bush is a joke...

    it is what it is DUDE..

    i am not sold on gore either okay..but i am definitely NOT sold on bush...and dont try and quote some bill or gettinghead scandal..

    this guy from australia is only telling you what he sees.. the big picture..they dont care about all that..they see what they see...clinton has done well..

    in bush..they see a joke...



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    i am rather like a mosquito in a nudist camp..i know what i ought to do but i don't know where to begin...
     
  5. DUDE

    DUDE Member

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    sirhangover
    THe reason why I first posted on this thread was because I did not agree with one thing said. About Clinton being respected and Reagan not overseas. I worked for a large Drug company until this last year and spent quite a bit of time in Europe. Radio stations, etc constantly made fun of Clinton. They had songs like 'Dont let the intern go down on me' a spoof of an Elton John song. Bill Clinton was NOT respected. It was a slap to all ALL Americans that another country would do this about Our President.
    It has nothing to do with our Australian friends or anything against them. If they feel Bush is a joke I appreciate their opinions. But I want to understand something: Reagan, Bush, Dole and W. Bush are viewed as jokes overseas, yet Clinton is respected? Does anyone else see the division down the party lines? Could that be the Media coverage someone gets?
    Once again however, does it Really matter what ANYONE outside of the US thinks about a candidate? If so then the USA is in trouble. the President of the USA should be the Presiden of the USA, not the world. Mr Clinton has done a SKILLED job at lobbying for the UN job he so badly wants. The USA is a force that needs to be reckoned with NO MATTER who is the the Oval Office. When you start worrying about Who Australia wants as our President, then that is the time you need to stop voting.
    And I will disagree again when you claim Clinton as a better president than Reagan.
    You also claim people like me are scaring you away from Bush, then in the same post you put me down by saying "you may think the world doesnt exist past beaumont". So if you believe that I think the world is Beaumont, then why do care what I think?
    Clinton is a much smoother person than Bush. No agrument there. However, anyone who thinks he is genuine is fooling themselves. And to me, Bush is a better choice than Gore.

    RocketMan Tex
    You asked "Why do conservatives constantly claim they are for "individual freedom", yet, through their actions, constantly try to take freedom away from people?"
    I dont agree that Conservatives try to take freedom away from people. You are free to wear a condom, or are free to abstain from sex. You are free to smoke, free to live where you want, free to live your life as you want, as long as no law is broken. I believe highly in an indivduals freedom. However, no matter how I look at it ending a life is murder. To me, life does begin at conception. The way I look at it is this: If you were to not do ANYTHING after conception then a birth would occur. So what you are doing is STOPPING a natural occurance. Kinda like playing God. You said that you dont believe a life starts until birth, yet have you not seen Fully formed beings in a mothers womb? Do you have an idea of what Partial Birth abortion is?

    To me it is funny how the some think it is bad to smoke a cigarette yet okay to end the life of an unborn child.

    To me a life changing moment was five years ago. My sister had her first child. The pregnancy was tough for for her, and the doctor actually confided in them that their best choice would be to abort. He said that the child would be underdeveloped mentally and would be much harder to raise than a normal child (his words). Thankfully, my sister and her husband both believe in Pro-Life, so they chose to ignore this persons views and decided to keep the child. Five years later, all is well and she starts school in one week. That is why I get emotional over things of this nature. Abortion to me is murder, no matter how I look at it.


    Since it seems I am outnumbered not making any headway I will now cease to post on this thread. All I seem to be on this thread is everyone's joke material. See ya at the voting booth.

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    "Her Box Started Buzzing Ever Since She Heard The CRÜE"
     
  6. sirhangover

    sirhangover Member

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    hey DUDE..
    i was trying to defend australian because i thought you were rather harsh in your argument against...i am sorry for being equally as harsh...

    like i said i have no strong opinion and my vote is not set in stone..but i really am not too keen on bush thats for sure..at the same time i cant help but absorb the feelings of foreigners view points of our candidates...

    everyone always talks about the pro liberal press but whenever i turn on the radio(especially am radio) all you hear is clinton bashing and making fun of liberals....i see the negativity on both sides and the press i feel is pretty even..as far as this bbs i feel it is actually more of a pro bush website although lately you dont hear from them as much..

    your opinion is accepted and you have equal rights to post..

    i guess if you think that reagan(which i think is the core of why i jumped on you) was better than this guy or that guy you simply did it in a way that i feel attacked the australians opinion of what he feels was an accepted australian sentiment... thats how they feel i guess...you attacking australian guy will not change the fact that they think he was a joke...you seem to remember him differently...i tend to disagree but not worth arguing about...

    more than anything I was defending australian and agreeing that i think reagan was a joke...i agree with you that we should not take into account australians views completely to heart but still worth something...

    maybe i shouldnt post on these threads either as i am sure you are a cool DUDE i just dont like this trickle down BS and all the rest of the hurt that we had to get past from that senile f*ck..sorry i couldnt help myself....take my comments not as an attack on you but the idiots responsible...nothing personal in most ways...thanks DUDE.. [​IMG]


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    i am rather like a mosquito in a nudist camp..i know what i ought to do but i don't know where to begin...
     
  7. Bobby

    Bobby Member

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    I lived and worked for a year in Australia, and had a chance to see the Aussie political process first hand. Believe me, if the bloke from Oz thought the American process is a joke, he ought to see Australia from my point of view. They don't have a presidential election over there; the party with the most members in their House elects the prime minister. Currently, the PM is John Howard, a Liberal (which is really the conservatives) and the Labor party hates him. The opposition is led by Kim Beazley, who sort of reminds me of Tip O'Neal, the former Speaker of the House. The Labor party is in control only because they have an alliance with the Country Party. They have this process called "preference voting", which allows you to vote for more than one candidate for an office, regardless of Party; which means you don't have the most first choice votes to win. They do have to be a bit careful - don't want to tick off the Governor-General, who is appointed by the Queen of England, and who can dissolve the government if he so chooses (it's only happened once, but the risk is still there).

    I love Australia, but I wouldn't want to be a citizen. A 48% tax rate for everyone earning over $40K, no competition in areas most of us take for granted (telephones, airlines, utilities), and a history (similar to the US) of mistreating and taking advantage of the native Australians, the Aborrigines.

    All in all, having observed political processes in many places around the globe, ours is still superior. At least we can govern without having to negotiate alliances with splinter parties seeking theie own self-serving goals.

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    "Who Wants To Be A Rocket?" - and probably a millionaire as well. The off-season will be interesting!
     
  8. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    "At least we can govern without having to negotiate alliances with splinter parties seeking theie own self-serving goals".

    Oh, you mean like special interest groups?


    [This message has been edited by mc mark (edited August 07, 2000).]
     
  9. dylan

    dylan Contributing Member

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    Congratulations Rocketman Tex, you just used the most cliched argument ever used. I love it when liberals cry out because conservatives are trying to "legislate morality". Of course you can (and should) legislate morality! What do you think most legislation is based on?

    moral: of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior

    How about this: I think stealing is not immoral. Therefore I can walk to your house and take what I want because I don't think you can legislate morality. I want to have sex with a 12 year old. Since we can't legislate morality, I guess that's alright. I don't want to hire any women or minorities. Once again, I guess I'm in luck since according to you we can't legislate it.

    In this case, the conservatives ARE for individual freedom. For some crazy, bizzare reason they actually respect and treasure the life of the unborn child.

    You may not agree with this, but stop claiming that because you differ in your opinion of when the child is alive that you are right and they are wrong. And most of all, stop that tired claim of the impossibility of "legislating morality".

    dylan

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    [This message has been edited by dylan (edited August 07, 2000).]
     
  10. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    dylan: You are certainly overblowing it a bit. I think that the concept of legislating morality has little to do with crimes the vast majority of us believe deserve some form of punishment.

    Stealing and sexual molestation of a child of course fall into that category.

    The concerns I and many others have is the idea of legislating a very specific morality. For example, the concept of life beginning at conception is a Christian belief based on the existence of a soul. As a result, Christians believe that abortion is murder. I agree with that right to protest but I do not agree with the conclusion.

    I believe that all animals have souls, yet I would be mistaken to believe that our government would protect them simply based on my (and many many others) belief systems.

    Of course, abortion is an issue highly tinged with emotion as well and is probably not well-suited for this argument, but I will give you one that is: homosexuality.

    This is one I still can't get over. When an openly gay congressman spoke at the GOP convention, many delegates bowed their heads or turned their backs. This is the same organization that wants to demonstrate how inclusive they are.

    Homosexuality, whatever your beliefs about it, is something practiced between two consenting adults behind closed doors. It is not endangering the lives of anyone. Yet, it is illegal to engage in homosexual acts in many states including this one.

    That is exactly the kind of legislation that worries people like myself. Am I gay? Nope. But, I do have gay friends and the thought of them going to jail for expressing their love for one another really scares me.

    Gay marriages harm no one yet they are outlawed in nearly every state. Gay partners are denied medical benefits even if their relationship fits the very description set forth in commonlaw marriages for which heterosexual couples receive benefits quite routinely.

    In our own city council, nearly every member has been divorced or is in the process of divorcing including Rob Todd, the most unltra-conservative member. The longest relationship? Between Annise Parker and her lesbian partner of 10 years. Yet, despite their love for one another and committment to the relationship, they cannot formalize their vows in marriage or even ask the city for benefits for Ms Parker's partner (she doesn't need it anyway!).

    Unlike abortion, this does not require a person to make a judgement call on life and death. This only requires compassion. There is so little love in the world as it is, it seems more a crime to deny love between two individuls despite the fact that they share a gender.

    That is the reason many of us are concerned with the GOP's sometimes hypocritical stance on personal freedoms.

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    Save Our Rockets and Comets
    SaveOurRockets.com
     
  11. Achebe

    Achebe Contributing Member

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    MadMax:

    What did Clinton say about President Bush?

    Also, I think you're being pretty silly suggesting that VPs don't ask the incumbent Presidents to help them out. I was just watching the DUDE's unbiased FOXNEWS in regards to the VP selection and they said that this is a joke... Nixon asked Ike and that George Bush asked Reagan to endorse their respective bids.

    The saddest thing is that the Republicans so far have succeeded in redirecting this campaign... we're still friggin' talking about Clinton.

    *Sigh*.

    Hopefully, the way in which Gore "let 'em hang out" will redirect the campaign. People will be talking about a Jew in office for the next few months (good or bad for Gore's campaign? No idea.) instead of Clinton.

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    "At one of these governors' conferences, George [W. Bush] turns to me and says: 'What are they talking about?' I said: 'I don't know.' He said: 'You don't know anything, do you?' And I said: 'Not one thing.' [Bush] said: 'Neither do I.' And we kind of high-fived."
    --Republican Gov. Gary Johnson of New Mexico shares a verbal exchange that took place between he and George W. Bush.

    (Quote is from the Los Angeles Times, 5/31/00)
    Dubyah Speaks
     
  12. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Contributing Member

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  13. ScreamingRocketJet

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    Bobby

    Mate...that was hilarious.

    Honestly, you lived here in...what, 1974? I am guessing...maybe it was 1975? That's how out of date you are.


    You got just about EVERYHTING wrong. Seriously...

    The system you refer to is known as proportional representation. It's so that we all get represented...hang on mate, that's democracy right?

    Fancy that...I wish we'd give that up for a Billion Dollar pushed President...

    Oh yeah, we pay high taxes because we have what's known as a welfare system. Mate, you know...it's that thing that allows everyone to live withour begging and allows everyone to get an education without the family needing to mortgage there life away.

    As for treatment of indigenous people. It is a disgrace what has happened here. However, I'd suggest that your own minorities aren't exactly happy. At least we provide for them...

    Now, I am not going to debate whose country is better. Let's just say that I know a lot of Americans who have become Aussies who love it here. There's a reason for that...



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  14. Surfguy

    Surfguy Contributing Member

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    Is it or is it not true that occassionally you have a stray kangaroo wander into the streets of Sydney [​IMG]?

    Surf

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  15. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Contributing Member

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    Thank you Jeff. I couldn't have said it better myself.

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    Bring It!!
     
  16. dylan

    dylan Contributing Member

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    I think gay marriages should be legal in every state. I fully realize that the GOP is very hypocritcal. Hell, I think both major parties are getting closer and closer to the same bunch of money-grubbing liberty-hating power mongers. That's why I have little-to-no faith in both of them and looked to third parties for people with similar beliefs.



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  17. dylan

    dylan Contributing Member

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  18. TheFreak

    TheFreak Contributing Member

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    mar•riage

    Pronunciation: (mar'ij), [key]
    —n.
    1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.


    Those of you who would like to legalize "gay marriages", what would you like the definition of marriage changed to?

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    "Thick, lustrous hair is very important to me."
    -George Costanza
     
  19. dylan

    dylan Contributing Member

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    Why change the definition? Why not use another dictionary definition since you seem to be fond of the dictionary.

    marriage \mar-ij also mer-ij\ n. an intimate or close union

    Isn't that what a marriage between man and wife is? An intimate and close union between two loving partners? That's exactly what a gay marriage is. No changes needed.

    Thank you, please drive through.

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    [This message has been edited by dylan (edited August 09, 2000).]
     
  20. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Well,
    One things for certain. There is a lot more Republican/Bush bashing that goes on in here than Democrat/Gore bashing. But thats just the nature of the beast. Just so happens that the majority of the people in here feel that way. Certainly it isnt the majority of Americans as recent polls had Bush ahead by over 10 points.

    Anyway, everyone lies in elections. It is a point that has been made in this thread and every thread on politics. Clintons campaign for election was just as much of a "joke", especially coming from what was then some boy from Arkansas.

    However, it is kinda a contradiction to say that people overseas (and a lot of Americans) see our political process as a joke, yet simultaneously respect Bill Clinton. Clinton has been the president for the past 8 years. WHile the politicla process has been developing for a couple of hundred years, the most immediate aspects of the process from this years election are taken from the "success stories" of CLinton's campaigns,etc. Bush and gore both see what CLinton did correctly and are modeling themselves similarly, with their own twists on things.

    I think the biggest problem is that the two parties are becoming like one and we dont have strong thrid parties anyways. Hopefully in time that will change.

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    Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women!
     

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