if what you are saying is true, then cuban would have beaten orlando's offer and they would not have matched it. you are reaching.
As aelliot has well articulated, statistical analysis is NOT about SAVING money. It's about EFFICIENT and EFFECTIVE use of money. Some moneyball opponents on this board keep on confusing these. IMO, Alexander is not cheap compared to other owners, and he is not particularly generous either. He is a shrewd business man. My guess is that he hired Morey to make better business decisions as much as to make better basketball decisions. The difference between Cuban and Alexander is that Cuban is a fan. He would do anything to see his team win. Alexander is a businessman. Of course he wants to win too. But he won't try to win at all cost.
Kind of what I was trying to say, but you said it much better. I would prefer an owner that was an all in guy, who went into the luxury tax and tried to win at all costs, over one who tries to control costs. DD
point taken, but you are still wronger. it's an empty argument to say that person A struck out better than person B because he swung harder. THEY BOTH STRUCK OUT. period. you are graspig at straws because of your dislike for morey.
That's just Cuban though, I don't think anybody else has spent that much money just to get a minor increase in talent. Not everybody is as rich as Cuban, not every owner is willing to shell out 20M in another center after he's already paying 20M in a center due to the tax. If I was an owner you wouldn't convince me to shell out that kind of dough, unless I make a billion a minute like what Cuban does. Rather than holding it against Alexander(who according to the Forbes list is the poorest owner in the L), you should be praising Cuban. And remember paying the tax=helping out your enemies. Not really sure why its a good idea to be paying the Jazz your money.
But its not your money right? I'd also prefer it if Alexander sold his soul to get the rox over the hump. If you were the owner though, I'm pretty sure you'd be singing a different tune...
you, and everyone else who uses this argument, has yet to come up with an example where paying the lux tax would have made the rockets contenders.
True, I guess, I would be a lot closer to Cuban and take the losses in the year as a depreciation against the bigger asset and then sell the team later for a massive profit offset by the losses of paying the lux tax. DD
I totally agree with this. I believe the Rockets gain value contracts not to save money necessarily on their payroll, but its a strategic move to make those players much more attractive on the open market to make moves. For a team rebuilding that NEEDS to make moves, why would you debate having high production/high value contracts for Role Players? Not for franchise players. That is the philosophy I believe Les and Morey have when it comes to building a roster, and it makes sense to me. So paying nearly Max dollars for Brendan Haywood would have suddenly catapulted the Rockets to the finals? Is he a 7ft center? Yeah... could he have beat out Chuck Hayes for minutes in Rick Adelman's motion offense.... I think no, but its debatable. Regardless, if thats debatable, its probably not an impact move, and would have crippled this franchise to make future moves not because of Les' pocketbook, but because the Haywood contract would be impossible to move in any deal. Either way you look at it, the only high dollar free agent that would have made a difference was Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, & Melo... if you can call him a free agent. They struck out, as did most teams in the NBA. That doesn't mean they didn't do everything they could do obtain those free agents. And please spare me the Amare argument. That one has been beaten to death on this board.
I do not think that the Gortat situation was about being cheap. Also, what is being forgotten in this whole situation is that there is a salary cap and the Rockets were attempting to balance adding to their team and keeping long term flexibility. You keep talking about Cuban. However, what you are describing can also apply to the Knicks. They spent money often and spared no expense and were in hell for a decade over it. I would point to the money Alexander has spend to buy draft picks as evidence that Les is not allergic to spending money. Further, he pays his staffers very well.
Wait, so spare you an argument because it doesn't fit your agenda? Come on now, play fair. And it is not about reasonably priced contracts sometimes it is about the Christian Laettner or Antwan Jamison sized contracts that you can use to acquire more assets. If you only deal in marginal or mid sized to low end contracts you only get that much in return. I am not saying what Morey is doing is not a good business move, it is, if you are trying to run a profitable business year to year. I would just prefer Cuban's way of going into debt and making it back on the sale of the company later, where the profit will be offset by the yearly losses. DD
That is not remotely the same as paying for proven NBA players, that count against the lux tax. Look, if you guys want to believe in Les Alexander as the owner, who will do anything to win, that is fine by me. I just happen to disagree with that, I think he wants to win, but his overall strategy is to make money first, every single year. And that could help factor into the Rockets demise since the Hakeem years. It is not really Morey's fault if he is following orders....either way, I understand others disagree, that's cool. DD
No the Amare argument has already been beaten to death. Thats why it doesn't fit in my agenda. This argument was made to Jon Feigan on his blog and he responded with points like - -the Suns refused to allow for a physical to be done prior. -Amare communicated through his agent that he would not resign with Houston -Houston was most likely out of the playoff picture at that time. The deal didnt happen because the Rockets didn't want to pay Amare... Thats my only point here.
They do have higher contracts on the team, but those larger deals have high production. The higher earners on the team like Luis Scola and Kevin Martin have those types of contracts that are larger deals, but they are deals that could easily be moved due to their production vs. cost. Brad Miller's contract looks like a bad contract on the front end, but the short term of the contract actually makes its attractive as early as next season.
Really. DD? You're really making the argument that Les should be like Cuban? Cuban is the only owner in the league like that. Who else has ever spent money like he does? First, obviously, Mark Cuban has spent like Mark Cuban. According to Forbes most recent listings of the world's richest people in 2010, Cuban was worth 2.4 billion dollars. (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/10/billionaires-2010_Mark-Cuban_IXMB.html) Los Angeles has a higher payroll - but they're in the second biggest market in the country and the Lakers are pretty much the most popular team in the WORLD and, more importantly, Jerry Buss is a billionaire whereas Les is a millionaire. P.s. a third of the Lakers is owned by the lesser known Philip Anschutz who is currently the third richest owner in the league at a net worth of 7.3 billion dollars. (http://billionaires.forbes.com/topic/philip_anschutz) Paul Allen used to spend like crazy in Portland. It never got them a ring. He's since reigned in the spending. He is also a billionaire whereas Les is a millionaire. Paul Allen is currently the richest owner in the league with a net worth of 13.5 billion dollars. (http://billionaires.forbes.com/topic/paul_allen) James Dolan and the Knicks used to consistently have the highest pay roll in the league - while simultaneously managing to have one of the worst records. And again, James Dolan is a billionaire whereas Les is a millionaire. The Dolan family are estimated to be worth 2.6 billion dollars. (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/10/billionaires-2010_Charles-Dolan-family_XPDU.html) All of those guys have spent like crazy and it's worked for the Lakers and the Mavs. It didn't work for the Trailblazers or the Knicks. But now let's get to Les,who, at one time, was worth 1.5 billion dollars and was the 322 richest man in the country. It's hard to find out what he's worth now though. He dropped off of Forbe's billionaire list and the richest people in the United States list completely. But I did find these tidbits floating around on the internet: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=146352 and this: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2005-salary-owners.htm It seems evident Les has lost a large portion of his net worth. It seems safe to assert that Les is among the poorer owners in the league at this point. And yet, what's this? http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm The Rockets have the sixth highest payroll (It's almost as if they plan to package a bunch of excellent contracts for a superstar or something!). Note that the 20th highest pay roll is the Denver Nuggets, who are owned by Stan Kroenke. Yeah. This Stan Kroenke - http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/10/billionaires-2010_E-Stanley-Kroenke_H6A2.html Kroenke is worth a half a billion dollars more than Cuban - and yet he doesn't spend like our dear ol' Les does. In fact, of the five teams that do - three are among the five richest owners in the league with Richard DeVos of the Orlando Magic being the other. (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/10/billionaires-2010_Richard-DeVos_GLPH.html) We're also two spots ahead of Paul "The richest owner in the NBA" Allen's Trailblazers, who, by the way, were a lot closer to competing for the title this year than we were and still didn't go as far in as Les. As an aside. the final two of the five richest owners in the NBA just haven't had time to rebuild their rosters from the Lebron sweep stakes strategy. Prokhorov in New Jersey and Arison in Miami. (http://www.forbes.com/2010/12/16/lakers-nets-blazers-magic-business-sports-nba-billionaires.html) Seriously, when you consider the market size of Dallas and his net worth, Cuban spends more than ANYBODY probably ever has. If spending money were playing basketball, Cuban would be Michael Jordan. Meanwhile, you want to know why in the hell Chuck Hayes can't play at the level of Hakeem Olajuwon. I know you wish we had the one billionaire fanboy owner in the NBA - but we don't. Now be grateful we're not stuck with Donald Sterling and instead have one of the better owners in the league. and just for fun - enjoy re-reading this article by Forbes about how Les Alexander is the best owner in the NBA: http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/03/nba-houston-rockets-nba08-biz-sports-cx_tvr_1203nbaowners.html
