"I feel like an Arrow in a Boomarang factory...i'm the only one flying straight." KC trying to be funny and clever while covering his complete unease at being dragged into a gay bar for the first time. And before you even start I was with my girlfriend (yes she was female).
You guys will think I'm gay for saying this, but that's OK....I'll take it as a compliment. I think it's a mixture of upbringing and genetics. I think everyone exists on a scale, and everyone sees a certain level of attractiveness in both men and women. I think if you're meter tips far enough towards women, you'll be sexually attracted towards women. If you're meter tips far enough towards men, you'll be sexually attracted towards men. If your meter hovers in the middle, you may have to make a choice, you may be confused, or you may be Bi. The ones on the extreme ends of the scale don't have to make a choice. For them, there is no choice. I also think there are environmental aspects at work too though. I think upbringing can pull you in one direction or the other. Those with a close knit solid and loving family structure can be "pulled" towards what society deems the most acceptable....that of being straight. Of course, if someone gets pulled too far away from their natural leanings, this can have disasterous effects later on in their relationships. Conversely, someone who lives in an oppressed environment or someone who is just naturally rebellious might find themselves pulled towards the opposite direction: that of being what society deems less "normal." That of being gay or bi. Same thing happens here too. If someone gets pulled too far away from their natural leanings, then they may have big issues later on. You may not like my opinion on this, but I think mine is the only one that addresses bi-sexuality and the fact that some people are confused, and that some people "switch" in mid-stream.
i got a gay uncle, he chose that lifestyle, don't buy into the genetics argument, but the environment argument makes sense.
My answer to the overall question would be that even if being gay is behavioral instead of genetic, that doesn't necessarily mean that those who are gay made a coinscious choice. But to answer your question, I have noticed a tendency for some people to join groups they know are picked on or discriminated against just because it's a group that accepts them (assuming they conform to whatever that group is all about). I mean, you could just as easily ask why there are people who chose to grow long hair in high school or get mohawks and join the punk scene (and I do know someone who was killed for that), or to overpierce their bodies or get multiple tattoos or whatnot. By doing so, they are often making a choice that will result in some level of discrimination by someone in a position of power - be it an employer, the PTBs, the jock kids at school, whatever. But they also often get a group identification that 1. allows them to be special ("I'm not like those automotons who play football," for example), and 2. it allows them to bond with others who have made the same lifestyle choice. So, I could see the possibility that someone could "choose" to be gay. But I would certainly think that would be an extremely small minority of the homosexual population.
Great post, mrpaige. I guess I really find myself defending the genetic theory because a lot of people use the possibility that it's a conscious choice as a basis for their discrimination and/or criticism of the lifestyle. If everyone would just treat everyone with respect, this argument would be moot.
Doesn't everyone have a Gay Uncle? Temperature can cause homosexuality in fruit flys, I wonder if its the same for humans. That my friends sound like a PH D paper to me. Call me Dr. Up
I'm not too crazy about the choices available. I agree with Mr. Paige, JV and MadMax. I think there is a genetic element, people inherit a sinful nature that will express itself one way or another. We just can't help ourselves. How it gets expressed seems to me to be a question of circumstances that we usually can't control. Someone's likely to jump on the idea that I'm saying homosexuality is a sin and yet that people can't control whether they'll be guilty of it. Yes, that's what I'm saying. I do think their response to it can be somewhat controlled and I also think that puts homosexuals in the same exact position as everyone else with regard to sin.
wtf? chill man... you act like gays/lesbians are programs written by merovingian for the matrix or something. it's genetic. it's not sexual "preference"... it's sexual orientation. they have as much control over it as you have being black, white, latino, short, tall, etc.... that's why the proud to be black/proud to be white crap is f'ing ridiculous. why be proud to be something that you have the least bit of control over? it's f'ing stupid. just as driving with a got damn rainbow sticker on your car is. if you're going to be proud of something, be proud of being a rockets fan or something that you can control. it's as simple as playing with the cards that you've been dealt. (by the way... excuse me if i'm sounding like yetti) someone above mentioned sin... wrong topic. that's another argument that needs it's own thread.
Well what is that belief based upon? Which environmental factors do you feel can turn someone gay? My brother and I were raised in the same environment but he's straight and I'm not. For those who think it is a choice, I honestly don't remember making one to be attracted to men. And although I'm embarrassed to admit this during Gay Pride month, I would "choose" to become straight if I could. I just do not think it is possible for me to be attracted to a woman sexually or romantically. If only there really were red and blue pills that control our existence. I would definately choose blue.
Genetics determine whether someone is gay or not, but their environment determines whether they're comfortable enough to live as a homosexual.
I hesitate to post this because I have no idea if it's true. It's about something I read, but for obvious reasons it's about something I'd have a hard time confirming. This one author suggests that many cases of homosexuality are due to childhood molestation by someone of the same sex (ie priests, relatives, teachers). Children molested by those of the opposite sex are more likely to become promiscuous later in life. I could see the reasoning behind it, like the guilt of being a victim, but to discuss such a topic with someone seems so disheartening.
that author sucks, mr_gootan. sorry. stop reading anything from him immediately. the molestation point you brought up is the same thing that you hear about women who are fed up with being hurt by men and all of a sudden decide to switch teams. basically you can choose to participate in gay/lesbian lifestyles if you're straight, but it doesn't work the other way around for gays/lesbians. as a matter of fact, i remember some religious movement that claimed to be able to change the "wrong ways" of those in the gay and lesbian community. their spokesman (sorry... i forgot the name) was one of many that claimed that he had changed. shortly thereafter, he was spotted where...?... in a gay bar. by the way... you are soooooo right, greenvegan76.... and you too, outlaw.
that makes zero sense. so it's a choice for me because i'm heterosexual...but it's not a choice for someone who's homosexual. yeah. right.
it makes perfect sense if you read it right. you completely misunderstood. if you're heterosexual, you can participate in the lifestyle (not completely change over like you said). just as someone who is gay can participate in a hetero lifestyle. use the example i used with the "hurt woman" who is fed up with being hurt by men and decides that she wants to make the playing field larger by dating women also. you can "act" outside of your sexual "preference" all you want, but your sexual "orientation" will never change. harder to explain than i expected. so i'll quit trying to avoid any more misunderstandings and leave it at this... you're born heterosexual or you're born homosexual.
Listen, the reason anybody says that they are proud to be gay, black, or whatever is NOT ridiculous. Black people are proud to be black because they were considered and still are considered by many to be inferior. It's the same with women, gays, Native Americans, etc. they're proud to be who they are because many times they are said to be less important or equal than others when it's not true. It absolutely fantastic if you love who you are and are proud of it!
okay. fine. i should have known better than to put that into my post because i knew sombody would make an issue of it. you know what lil pun? i'm proud to be tall! i'm also proud that my index toe is bigger than my big toe. YAY!!! if anybody who's reading this is white, i encourge you show that you're proud of your heritage by placing a "Proud to be White" bumper sticker on your car. hmmm... this would be the perfect time to bring up the a thread asking what people think of BET. let me ask you something, lil pun... what makes you proud of your race? does it do anything for you? does it do anything for anybody else? you ARE what you ARE and you have to deal with it. if a someone of your same race or sexual orientation discovered a cure for cancer, would you be more "proud" than if someone of a different race, gender, or sexual orientation had discovered it? maybe i'm not like you, okay? i'm gay and black. i have no reason to be proud of either because they don't make ME a better person. like i said, i just play with the cards that i've been dealt. i don't watch BET and i don't drive with a rainbow sticker on my car because i see no need in breaking my self down in any other subculture (sorry for the lack of a better word) for ignorant bastards to discriminate against. i'm a person. not a black person. not a gay person. A PERSON. nothing more, nothing less. (cue the "we are the world... we are the children" song.) oh... by the way... environment has diddly squat to do with sexual orientation.
Gootan, I've heard the same thing from a psychologist who worked with gay boys and he said it was overwhelmingly common with his patients that they were sexually abused as children. Like you, I'm not quite sure what to make of it. I doubt there is a simple correlation between the two, but there does seem to be some sort or correlation. Of course, you can't usually go around and ask your friends if they were sexually abused as children. Omega, why is a discussion of sin not pertinent to the topic?
