Its pointless thinking about Roy. The Rox wanted him, and did not have a pick high enough to get him. (Please dont bring up the Denver game) As for Gay, he is putting up good offensive numbers on a terrible team. Ask Mike James what that means. There is no debate he is a better offensive player then Battier, but I would say his improvement to the Rox offense over Battier equals Battier's improvement to the Rox defense over Gay. Gay simply can not guard an elite perimeter player. He has the athleticism, but not the mindset or drive to do it. That isnt his game. Tmac cant do it all game long either. Bonzi cant do it. Head cant do it. No one on this team can do it other then Battier or maybe Chuck, but you cant have him playing as a SF. Also please dont bring Swift into the equation like we gave up too much by adding him. He was making 5 million a year and was terrible. If we dont add him, we cant sign Scola and probably dont have the roster spot for Landry to be added either. He was clearly addition by subtraction to this roster.
I don't think he has the athleticism. He's an explosive leaper, and he runs the court well, but his lateral quickness is very poor for an NBA Small Forward. Gay was actually a better defensive player than offensive player at UConn, but as soon as he hit the NBA, his lack of quickness was exposed. It shows some when good perimeter defenders can deny his penetration the entire game, but it really shows when below-average penetrators like Battier are able to take him to the basket over and over again. If Gay wants to be a good player in the NBA, he needs to put on 20 pounds and reinvent himself as a Power Forward. As it is, he's really, really one-dimensional.
Yea, I saw and read that article too and was wondering if anyone had brought it up in here and/or in the NBA Dish forum. You know what is more sickening?? Azubuike is #10 on the list and he was a guy that was with the Rockets but, surprise, surprise, he didn't fit the Gumby mold type player and thus never got a chance with us. And I don't care what denniscd says (which I am really surprised that he hasn't posted in this thread admonishing all of us for wanting Gay), the thinking that the Rockets FO had on not wanting Gay was beyond stupid. The decision to trade him for the mediocre Battier is one that will haunt this franchise for a long time. To me, it is similar to the Red Sox trading a young prospect by the name of Jeff Bagwell to the Astros for a veteran middle reliever named Larry Andersen. The only difference is that the Red Sox only had Andersen for half a season before he left for FA (where we have had Battier for a longer period than that), but the Astros had Bagwell for close to 20 seasons and you will probably see Gay in a Grizzlies uniform for a long time - maybe not 20 seasons but at least 10.
Here is the entire article, btw: Which sophs are soaring? Which are slumping? By David Thorpe ESPN.com (Archive) Updated: January 24, 2008 Comment Email Print NBA Fastbreak Looks at the Sophomore ClassWe've been focusing each week on this year's rookie class, and now, as we reach the midpoint of the season, it's time to take a look at last year's rookies and how they're developing in Year 2 of their young NBA careers. Which sophs are on the verge of stardom? Which are showing strong signs of development? Which seem to be stuck in the dreaded sophomore slump? And which have a long way to go? Here are my top 10 sophomores, plus some others to keep an eye on: The big three 1. Brandon Roy, Blazers The reigning Rookie of the Year is still at the head of the class. He's not a special athlete, nor a dead-eye shooter, and he doesn't "Iverson" too many people with jaw-dropping ballhandling moves. What he is, though, is a great player, because he's good or very good at everything. He defies NBA scouts' creed of "have to be great at one thing" to be a legit NBA player. Literally, this is a player without a real weakness. I'm most impressed by his pace. Roy plays at a unique tempo that makes him look slow. But as he goes past guys or creates open midrange jumpers with his handle and timing, we realize that everyone else is moving even slower because he is in total control of his game and the ballgame in general. He may not ever be a league MVP, but a Finals MVP seems like a strong possibility one day. Portland's young bigs and higher draft picks (LaMarcus Aldridge and Greg Oden) are no more important to the franchise's future than Roy is -- that's how special he is. 2. Rudy Gay, Grizzlies Undoubtedly the most talented player of this class, with the biggest upside, Gay is an elite NBA athlete with great size and length for his position. He is also very skilled as a dribbler and shooter, and he's a good passer out of doubles and ball screens. Gay is figuring out that he can be a dominant player on both ends of the floor, something many teams and scouts questioned about him before the draft. I'd like to see him rebound more consistently, but other than that, his progress has been excellent, and he has the ability to be a leaguewide MVP candidate one day. Remember, he's two years younger than Roy, and is the second-youngest player on this list. Toronto strongly considered taking him with the No. 1 pick in June. They should have. 3. LaMarcus Aldridge, Blazers Probably the second most talented sophomore and another can't-miss Portland prospect (along with Roy and Oden) who is an integral part of the Blazers' bright future. Except for some injury concerns, Aldridge leaves no question as to how he will be a dominant power forward in this league. He combines his dynamite turnaround jumper (with his high release) and his right-hand jump hook to form a simple but very effective low-post game. And I think he plays even better in open space; he has a great feel for pick and popping or flashing to open spots. He's a good shooter, a good shot-blocker and a willing rebounder -- three keys to being more than an average power forward in the NBA. He's still thin, but that does not keep him from bashing inside -- a hint to what he'll be like when he naturally adds 20 pounds or so over the next few years. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Key contributors 4. Ronnie Brewer, Jazz Brewer is the elite athlete of all the guards in this class; in fact, he ranks high compared to all NBA guards. He is tall and rangy and loves to bang inside, partly because he can't shoot. But he's perfect in Utah's system, hurting smaller or weaker guys inside using flex or face cuts to get open. He rarely makes a bad pass or takes a bad shot, and he's one of the top steals guys in the league, so he helps create extra possessions for his team. If he learns how to shoot the ball from the perimeter at an average ability, Brewer can become a 17-plus PPG guy. 5. Paul Millsap, Jazz He may not be playing quite as efficiently as he did last season, now that teams know they must account for him, but he is still a threat to be the difference maker for the Jazz on any given night. He has scored 17-plus points on six occasions, and the Jazz have won five of those contests -- impressive for an "undersized" power forward playing behind one of the top 4s in the world. He can beat people in a variety of ways, too: as a shot-blocker, transition finisher or an offensive rebounder. His agility even allows him to drift out to defend perimeter guys, though his offensive game is not at that level. Millsap wins the "Best Hands in Class" award. 6. Jordan Farmar, Lakers Few teams would have predicted he'd be getting 20-plus minutes per game on one of the best teams in basketball in only his second season in the league. But more than half the teams who passed him up on draft day could use his 40.6 percent 3-point shooting in their rotation, not to mention his energy on both sides of the floor. He is quick and crafty with the ball, and is a much better than average finisher around the rim despite his small stature. He looks to be the best pure point guard in this class, though the Lakers' offense allows him to be more "guard" than "point." His on-the-ball defense is also underrated, and he's averaging more than a steal per game as the backup to Derek Fisher. He'll be a longtime starter in this league. And a winner. 7. Craig Smith, Wolves It's hard to be certain how good a player is when he plays on a terrible team, but this much is true: Guarding Smith in the paint takes a real commitment, because he's going to bring all of his power to the play. That's why you'll see him make far more unmolested layups than most undersized guys, who often get crunched as they go to the rim. There's nothing soft about his physique or his skills, other than a questionable jumper. Great hands and feel, and nimble too, Smith could become a better rotation player if he could learn the pick-and-pop game. He's a fighter on defense too, but he is easy to shoot over for many true power forwards. But for teams that like to play small, their 4 is often overmatched by the "Strongest in Class" second-round pick. 8. Daniel Gibson, Cavs Proving that last season's coming-out party in the playoffs was no fluke, Gibson is the most prolific 3-point shooter in this class (92 made 3s), and one of the best long-distance shooters in the league (currently third in 3-point percentage at 48.9). He's quick and steady with the ball, and not turnover prone. And he's smart -- he rarely over-penetrates, instead stopping and popping and avoiding tough shots in traffic. Gibson is the only guy on this list who's made the NBA Finals, and joins Millsap as the only current sophs who have contributed to playoff wins. Never underestimate the importance of second-round picks. 9. Rajon Rondo, Celtics He may indeed be the most fortunate point guard in the league, but there is no denying his impact on the Celtics. He's our "Quickest in Class," and it shows when the Celtics need a shot late in the clock. Rondo can blow by his defender and get a shot for a teammate or himself. He harasses the opponent's guards also, stripping dribblers or jumping passing lanes. He's a real pest, in the best sense of the word. I think he's also becoming more comfortable as a vocal leader in Boston, an important step in his growth and the team's growth if they are going to be legit title contenders. He's a jump shot away from having All-Star potential, and as Tony Parker has shown, it's not out of the question that he can develop one. 10. Kelenna Azubuike, Warriors Although his production has slipped each month of the season, he still ranks in the top 10 of his class in scoring and rebounding, and thus, earns this spot on our list. The only undrafted player represented here, Azubuike benefits by playing in Don Nelson's system. Still, it's hard to imagine that every other team couldn't project him to be similar to what he is now -- an athletic and strong guard who has a great shooting stroke and a willingness to rebound in traffic. He's not crafty with the ball, but credit him for knowing that and sticking to easy plays. He's smart at finding his shooting spots, often spotting up in the left corner or wing, where he is shooting a combined 32-for-68 behind the line. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Others to watch Tyrus Thomas, Bulls: With the awful play of Ben Wallace inside, one would think Thomas might get consistent minutes in an effort to grow his game to another level. That has not been the case. Thomas, the most athletic player in his class, routinely plays very little despite showing signs of becoming a legit starter in this league. He's a likely trade candidate in the next few weeks. Andrea Bargnani, Raptors: The top pick in the draft has to be the most disappointing player, thus far, from the draft class of 2006. He has been less effective in almost every measurable category this season compared to his rookie season, which is a very troubling sign. He's still a very good 3-point shooter, but he's showing little else. With the No. 1 pick, the Raptors may have drafted a Matt Bonner type. Kyle Lowry, Grizzlies: He can't shoot from deep and is too short to finish inside regularly, but this guy can play. This is really an extended rookie year for him since he missed almost the entire 2006-07 season due to an injury. Lowry provides energy and toughness and is a capable defender, too. Conley is the clear starter for this team moving forward, so perhaps Lowry gets moved to a team that needs his talents more than the Grizz do. Thabo Sefolosha, Bulls: I was unimpressed watching him get some extended run for the Bulls in the summer league, but he has been much sharper of late in Chicago. He plays intelligently and can shoot the midrange jumper. Plus, he has the ability to play multiple positions on both ends. Josh Boone, Nets: I was not a fan of this pick on draft night, but Boone is developing into a double-double guy on a team desperate for inside help. Of course, shooting less than 35 percent from the line means that Boone's spot in the rotation is far from secure going forward. Consider that Shaq shot above 50 percent his first three years and had a career low 42.2 percent last season. And Boone is no Shaq. Randy Foye, Wolves: Remember the argument about who should be drafted first between Foye or Roy? I do. While Foye has talent, I never understood the debate. Foye's current injury and his terrible team make the comparison impossible right now, but the No. 7 pick in the 2006 draft looked like a positionless man when he played last season. J.J. Redick, Magic: As I've written before, I think Redick can be a solid guy for most teams in this league. But he's done nothing thus far. In his defense (and coach Stan Van Gundy must think he needs some), he scored efficiently in the only two games in which he played 17-plus minutes. Don't write him off yet. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Long way to go Adam Morrison, Bobcats: He didn't prove he could play at even an average level as a rookie. Then he injured himself before the season and is now out until 2008-09. It's questionable whether he ever gets much of a chance in Charlotte, which will prove to be very painful for the No. 3 pick and the team that selected him over everyone else on this list except Bargnani and Aldridge. Shelden Williams, Hawks: He came on strong late last season and looked like he'd be a formidable frontcourt mate alongside Al Horford. Instead, he's gotten worse in almost every single statistical category this season and looks like a disastrous pick for Atlanta at No. 5. Patrick O'Bryant, Warriors: I was warned before the draft that he was a paper tiger -- has all the tools, but apparently lacks a heartbeat. Mouhamed Sene, Sonics: Reaching for a big man (again) is not news for the Sonics. But to be fair, Sene doesn't turn 22 until May and a stint in the D League is doing him good. Hilton Armstrong, Hornets: A walking example of how "staying in school" often means very little when it comes to playing in the NBA. Despite four years at UConn, Armstrong has lost minutes to journeymen Melvin Ely and Ryan Bowen in the Hornets' rotation and has logged 20-plus minutes in a game only once this season. David Thorpe is an NBA analyst for ESPN.com and the executive director of the Pro Training Center at the IMG Academies in Bradenton, Fla., where he oversees the player development program for NBA and college players. To e-mail him, click here. I believe this NBA insider article is free but here is the link (may not work): http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Sophomores-080124
me too. He was my favorite player in the draft. Gay is a helluva athlete and can fill stats, but as a basketball player Roy is miles ahead. Minny deserves all the bad things that happen to them for not trading with portland and not the rockets...foye?!
Oh and Brandon Roy would have obviously been very nice to have but he was gone by the time it was our pick, so that is a moot point.
dude who cares about all that as long as gay keeps having highlights, after highlights are what wins games....
It's ridiculous. In trading Battier for Gay and going to a faster pace, the Grizz have turned a .600 team into a .230 team, despite adding some valuable pieces in Lowry, Navarro, and Darko. I really don't think some posters pay any attention.
Yea, tell me about it. weslinder would rather watch someone like Kobe or Durant torch Battier for 40 or more points and then try to convince you and me and anyone else with a straight face that the Rockets still got the better end of that deal. As Nipsey Russell would say in "Wildcats" (and this saying is one of Faos's personal favs), "Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight."
Posters pay attention and then there are posters that only tell you half the story to fit their arguments. Yes the Grizzlies are bad but it is because they are a young team, Gasol is a trainwreck defensively (as is most of the team, Rudy Gay is probably their best defender), and they have a coach that is not a good fit for their personnel, IMO. It would be like getting Gumby to coach the Warriors with the players they have now and expecting them to play his slow-down boring style of offense. Do you seriously think that the Warriors would sniff the playoffs?? Hell, no. Also, this doesn't even take into account that almost everybody in the west has improved (with the exception of the Sonics and Timberwolves) since the Grizzlies last made the playoffs. And Lowry, dude, didn't even PLAY much of the last season. Yea, he is going to be good but it is highly unrealistic to expect him to turn their team around. If he was that good, he would have been drafted in the spot Randy Foye was.
Its nice how you mention Durant after his last game, but fail to mention Battier holding him to 4-13 shooting one game before then. Anyone who thinks Battier has had no impact on the Rox is not watching the games.
Again, in 2005-06, the Grizz starting Battier, Gasol, Lorenzen Wright, Eddie Jones, and Damon Stoudamire were the 4th best team in the West. In 2007-08, the Grizz starting Gasol, Gay, Mike Miller, Stoudamire/Conley, and Milicic are the 13th best team in the West. It really is that simple.
I know intangibles and all, but Rudy averages 1.5 steals a game compared to Shanes 1.1 avg. Rudy average .9 blocks a compared to Battiers 1.1 blocks a game. Gay is shooting almost 47% and 39% behind the arc while average .9 more boards than Battier. Battier is shooting 41% from the field and 37% behind the arc. So aside from blocks Gay has him beat in all categories including efficiency by 7, not to mention he's younger, and has more potential as a defensive force due to his length and athleticism. I've no doubt that JVG or RA could groom him into a great defender. If JVG could cover up the defensive liability of Head as well as he did, than he could do the same for Gay although Gay wouldn't be a liability. The only edge aside from blocks is that Battier is a better help defender, perhaps a better entry passer (I can't confirm whether Gay is good at this or not), and probably spaces the floor better on offense due to his experience in the league which Gay will undoubtedly acquire over time. The latter two is speculation so it may or may not even be true. I mean if you have a great scout of talent like Jerry West jumping at the deal and saying he got the best player in the draft than you know you probably made a mistake. The Rockets screwed the pooch on the deal, but it really could have been a lot worse. It's not like Battier is Moochie Norris or anything.
i wasnt comparing him to battier. i didnt even mention battier. i was making a comment about gay's defense, independent of anyone else
