Not sure what your religion is, but in most religions.. God created blood. Are you more in debt to the entity that created you or the entity you created?
A few hundred years ago, almost everyone in the world thought that the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around us. So don't give me any of that BS about "more people believe it, so it must be right," because it means exactly nothing. Oh, and Sane? Incidentally, about 33% of the world is Christian, and about 20% are Muslims. More Christians than Muslims. Guess that means you're wrong about Jesus not being the Messiah, huh? Guess you're going straight to hell... do not pass GO, do not collect $200. You keep citing biology... whether your son "chooses" to be gay or not, he was still created by you. And if you simply mean that you would disown him... well, I don't know of any words strong enough to convey how fervently I disagree with that. Strangely enough, I know about a dozen gay people, and wouldn't you know it? None of them are victims of their circumstances. The worst any of these people suffered is divorced parents, and I know plenty of straight people who suffered that same disadvantage. If gays are truly "victims of circumstance" as you say, then any gays (and certainly your own son) deserve help rather than derision. Just because you believe it is wrong doesn't mean you can just sit pretty and avoid it at all costs. According to YOUR logic, the reason the U.S. is becoming so immoral is because of people who refuse to help the unfortunates (the poor, the thieves, the homosexuals)... people like YOU, Sane. Show some compassion. Just because it feels good to bash homosexuals doesn't make it right.
as long as thy're not doing or selling drugs to my kid then who cares? so do you agree with the punishments that Middle east nations give for homosexuality? In Iran two men committing sodomy are put to death. two women together get 100 lashes.. Where's the outrage from Bush and the neocons about these human rights violations? so knowing 2 gay people makes you an expert on the causes of homosexuality. Lots of people have dead fathers. Lots of people are abused during childhood or locked up. These things are horrible but they don't make you gay.
Let me get this straight - prior to saying something you know perfectly well will be inflammatory and offensive you warn us that it will be offensive, but then you ask that another poster not offend you with impertinent references to your god. OK. By the way, I am completely flummoxed by this thread. It began with Lil Pun asking what he could do to broaden the minds of the necks in his community with respect to gay marriage. (My cynical answer, Lil Pun, is this: not a whole lot.) Next thing you know, 20 people weigh in on why they think that gay marriage is a bad idea and/or should not be allowed. With all due respect, friends, I could not be less interested in why any of you think it's wrong, bad, should be illegal, makes you uncomfortable, etc. What interests me is the good old US Constitution, which plainly provides for equal protection under the law. You cannot deprive one group of citizens to rights that are readily available to other groups. The end. You don't want your devotional entity to sanctify or in whatever way recognize same-sex marriage? OK with me. But to deny by legal statute same-sex couples to the institution and the rights and responsibilities it confers, well, that's insane.
do you believe in the Abraham sacrificing Isaac/Ishmael story and what would you have done in Abraham's place?
As of now, there's no definite proof that being gay is biological. Don't cite a research for me. You and em both know there are lmost an equal numbers of researches citing for and against the issue. I've done my research. Everyone thought the Earth was flat, but no one knew until we had a way to know. When it comes to homosexuality, we DO have a way to know, we can test people, there's DNA, there's all sorts of ways. It's not the same thing. BTW, in "the earth is flat" story, Christianity and Islam prevailed because they both stated that the earth was round. You want to bet against them again? Just to make it clear on the my son being gay issue. If he is gay, I will try to change his mind. I will do everything in my mind to change his mind. But if he doesn't let up, then yes, I will disown him. "Divorced parents" is a circumstance. I'm tempted to know if your parents are divorced because you make it sound so insignificant. I'm quite offended by your remarks because my parents are divorced and I had to fight through it, it's not a piece of cake as you make it sound. The fact that some people do and some people don't turn gay from it just means that some people are mentally stronger and some people are not. Gays deserve help, that's true. But by granting them these laws you are sending them the message that it's ok to be gay. According to my personal beliefs, being gay is wrong. So according to my personal beliefs, you're rewarding people for doing something wrong. How is that help? The U.S. is becoming so immoral because there is no control. That's my opinion. I don't live in the U.S., so you don't need to worry about people like ME.
- First issue, I won't argue with you. If we can't agree on that point, then we won't agree on that issue. You don't mind exposing your children to children who think that drug dealing is ok, then that's your business. No one can tell you how tor aise your kids. - Yes I do. Homosexuality is a major sin in Islam. Major sins have major consequences. It's not so much I care what these people do in their homes, it's more that if they don't get punished, it will spread and corrupt the community. - Traumatic experiences don't always lead to homosexuality, but homosexuality, WAY more often than not, is a result of (a) traumatic experience(s). You've already mentioned in the past that you are not like that - well, as you said, one example or two doesn't represent the entire population.
We're talking about homosexuality, there was no need for him to drag the subject of "Allah" into this. It's just like if I disagreed with someone here and decided to trash his or her mother because of it. First of all, it's childish. Second of all, you will never win an argument that way. Third of all, there's the issue of respect. If you don't like what's being said, don't read. Once you read the paragraph where I said it would be offensive, you should've just skipped it.
Hopefully, the same thing. My intention is to do the same thing. I can't even imagine my personality is even compareable to Abraham, but I would do my best to do the same thing.
Trying to control others itself is immoral. Force is not the way to positively change anyone. You can only try to control yourself. The people in the U.S. suffers from the same afflictions as the people in the rest of the world. The suffering that we all endure comes from our craving, our anger, our hate, our discrimination, and our delusions. These afflictions are born from our ignorance. No amount of force and control will change this. Also, we should not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt our views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education. However, through compassionate dialogue, we can help others renounce fanaticism and narrowness. The individual and society are one. Each must nourish the other, or both will wither.
as far as homosexuality being a biological issue or personal choice, i would ask why in the hell would anyone choose to be gay? to be cool? to flaunt the conventions of society? why would some confused 16 year old kid decide to come out? so he can get his ass kicked everyday at school? will his life be easier? absolutely not. i cant imagine someone saying "hmm, being gay looks cool - i think ill try it." i believe that its something you are and dont have control over. i think the "allah is a flammer" comment was about the fact that god (allah) (buddah) is everywhere and part of everything and we are all a part of god. god is in flowers, water, rocks, people (even the gay ones) and animals. if we are all part of god and god is all part of us than we are all interconnected in this crazy world we live in. we are all an extention of god (even the gays). therefore, to hate gays means you are hating a part of god and something that he created. however, i understand that sane and some others feel that homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of god so that argument is probably not valid to yall. i dont have kids, but i couldnt imagine disowning one of them for anything that they would do short of murder or rape.
I would like to back up a moment and go to the beginning of this thread and ask some questions. Why do the verses I posted about in Leviticus not count in the Christian faith or why is it "just part of the story?" as posted by MadMax? Why don't you look at the Bible and follow all of it and not some of it. Can you do that with any part of the Bible you want, say well we need this for guidance and to lead us but this stuff over here is just part of the book? I mean, I thought if you follow some of it you follow all of it, not let's use this but disregard this. Somebody please explain. I apologize if the above post seems rude I'm just trying to understand and need a little guidance from you people who are Christians and know some of the answers. Also, does it currently say ANYTHING about marriage in the Constitution of the United States of America to date? Have there been laws banning homosexual marriages before the uproar started this year?
Humans can not individually control themselves. I can't wake up in the morning on my own, I need my girl to call me up and do it for me. I need help wakign up in the morning. Just like humans need help with certain issues - like carrying guns, selling drugs, abusing children... There needs to be control. Why do we have gun control? Why don't we just allow everyone the right to a gun and the knowledge of how to hijack planes and crash them into buildings? Because humans are not perfect. In a perfect world, with perfect humans, your method works. But just not the way things are unfortunately.
Yes, I think the U.S. needs to reform to become more like these countries: Just kidding Sane, I'm going to leave you alone now. Not because you have made any valid points to me but because I can see that you a set in your ways. I never set out to change that though just to get some positive opinions about gay marriage and you have left me with 0. I can respect that though, as you say to each his own.
The same can be said about alcoholics. No one wants to be an alcoholic or chooses to be one or thinks that being alcoholic is cool. The biological vs. choice argument has yet to be settled by anyone, but your argument is not valid IMO. As for the "Allah" thing... Humans are not the biological children of God in Islam. We are not made of the same thing. That's why it's offensive. The whole argument was invalid, not just the homosexual part. He was just trying to attack something that I value rather than my argument.
Obviously not. There is a LOT of research on both animals and humans that shows that MANY of them (including humans) have homosexual tendencies. I won't cite the research since you have obviously closed your mind to anything opposed to your OPINION. Come on. Christianity and Islam did not survive BECAUSE they thought the Earth was round. Up until the 1400s (when Christianity and Islam were already well established), EVERYONE thought the Earth was flat. We DO have ways of testing it now and all the recent SCIENTIFIC studies have shown that homosexuality is not learned behavior. Then you don't deserve to be a father. A father who loves his offspring wouldn't care who they feel attracted to, he would accept that they are who they are and be happy that they have found someone they love, even if that someone is of the same sex. If MY son discovers that he is gay, I will support him with my whole heart because I love my son unconditionally and without any question or qualification. I feel sorry for you (and your son) if you do not feel the same way towards him. My parents are divorced as well. Somehow, even though divorce rates are MASSIVE these days, the percentage of gays has stayed flat. Divorce does not cause homosexuality any more than being raised in a house by homosexual parents does. My personal beliefs say that being discriminatory is wrong. You doscriminate against gays and therefore, YOU are wrong on this issue. Gays are people just like you and I. You and I deserve the right to marry the women that we respectively love, and gays deserve the right to marry the partners that they choose. If you think that "help" for gays is to convince them to reject their feelings for the partners that they love, then you have been disproven time and time again. There have been MANY programs that tried to brainwash (they called it "reprogramming") gay people into being straight and NONE of them were effective. So you think it is right to simply "control" people into having partners that YOU think are right for them? Thank God that you don't live in the US, we already have WAY too many feidists here.
Drugs and gays are not analogous. People CHOOSE to use and sell drugs, the VAST majority of gays are simply gay and have no choice about it whatsoever. No, it won't. Gay people do not "spread" homosexuality. Homosexuality is something that is experienced by about 10% of ANY society, no matter the punishment meted out for the behavior. Look at homosexuality rates in the Islamic countries where the punishments are MASSIVE compared to those of the US where gays are tolerated MUCH more and you will find that those rates are roughly equivalent. Again, you show your ignorance. I know MANY gay people and even did my internship to be a drug abuse counselor on a gay and lesbian chemical dependancy unit. MOST of those people did not suffer traumatic experiences until they came out of the closet.
