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Gas could fall to $2 if Congress acts

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by H-town_playa2k2, Jun 23, 2008.

  1. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    And look where we are. This is probably the worst credit crisis since the great depression. What happens when all those pension funds start crying when their commodity prices go down. How is this all that different then what Enron did a few years ago?
     
  2. Ehsan

    Ehsan Member

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    You can't stop speculation. If I think oil will be more valuable in 6 months time, then I will buy now. I don't have to need the oil. But my analysis, to me, is worth the price difference between oil now and oil, in this example, in 6 months.

    Specualtion is a supply and demand function. If I expect demand, I will buy now. If I expect supply, I will sell now. You can't tell people that they can only buy oil if they need it.

    Fact of the matter is, as many have said before, that demand is growing globally. This is not a U.S. problem. China and India will need as much oil as the U.S. in the short-medium term. That kind of demand is bound to increase price to above $200. Those who have the guts to bet on WHEN that would happen should have the right to buy oil now.

    FYI, futures markets are buying oil. Spot markets are receiving and delivering oil. If you own a futures contract saying you must deliver then you will own the oil on that date unless someone wants it more than you do.

    Insurance is also speculation. Should we stop that? When someone is expected to die, life insurance will pay less. That is an expectation. That is speculation. It is normal. It happens.

    Come to grips with the fact that speculation is not the problem. overconsumption is the problem.
     
  3. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    I'd be shocked if he didn't veto it, assuming it ever finds its way to his desk.
     
  4. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    If speculation is not the problem, then explain to my why in the last six months are we finally blaming a weak dollar? First, it was the war in Iraq, then katrina's fault, with a whole slew of other reasons. Rumors that one of our ships fired its guns sends the price of oil up. The Saudis are going to flood the market with more oil, consumption goes down YET the prices continue to go up. Why is diesel 25% more than regular gas? Why are we paying price increases at the pump the SAME day the price of BBL goes up? Are we shipping, refining and putting fuel in the pumps in the ground that fast?

    The answer to these questions is simply because we continue to buy it and put up with it. It is the chicken and the egg; Fuel goes up, price of goods go up. "oh, fuel is going up because of inflation". This is no different than the real estate bust ... only that I don't get the choice of what market I get to buy in ... im getting screwed no matter what.
     
  5. Steve_Francis_rules

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    Yeah, because high schoolers have been hit the hardest by rising gas costs.
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    With you on this. We weren't dealing with real inflation and a weak dollar when this mess started.
     
  7. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    That's fine. Speculate away...as long as you have to put up 50% of the money up front rather than 5%.
     
  8. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

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    Count me in with you guys as well.
     
  9. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    Actually, we were. Price inflation (which is a trailing indicator to inflation) has only really been bad over the past 18 months or so, but inflation has been significant since 2002. Only this year has the price oil increased against gold. The dollar has actually strengthened a tiny bit against gold and most foreign currencies in the past few months. The Fed has contracted the money supply just a bit this year, and it has stabilized the dollar. But we've still got to pay the fiddler for a 6 year dance.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    How come none of this was offered up in the summer of '05 as a reason for the spike then? In 2006 it was the hurricane season that wasn't...and then prices fell back some in the fall of that year as it never materialized.
     
  11. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    We should just make people take delivery of the product.
     
  12. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    Because we are conditioned to think of inflation as price inflation, and we don't notice the effects of a weak dollar until it starts affecting all parts of the economy. In 2005-06, inflation was manifesting itself first in the housing sector, but few were making the connection between that and the weakness of the dollar.
     
  13. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    it is so frustrating when i provide a link that actually has good information and people just completely ignore it.

    again...

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=753754816&play=1

    WATCH THE VIDEO and please try to learn something guys....don't believe the bs
     
  14. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    i honestly don't understand why it is so hard for people to take a few minutes to educate themselves. i guess because it is so much easier for people to take the easy route and just believe the conspiracy.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=753754816&play=1

    WATCH THE VIDEO and please try to learn something guys....don't believe the bs
     
  15. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aFgpuiHl13uo

    Speculators Are Largest U.S. Oil Contract Buyers (Update3)

    By Tina Seeley

    June 23 (Bloomberg) -- Speculators became the largest players in oil futures markets, nearly doubling their share in the past eight years as prices rose to records, in a ``radical shift'' for the market, according to a congressional committee.

    In January 2000, speculators controlled 37 percent of contracts to buy West Texas Intermediate crude oil on the New York Mercantile Exchange, with the rest held by physical hedgers, including refiners and airlines that need to hedge against delivered fuel costs.

    By this April, speculators controlled 71 percent of the contracts, according to data provided to the House Energy and Commerce Committee by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission.
     
  16. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    ...........and you didn't even bother to watch the video......

    this is just pointless and hopeless when people choose to live in the dark.
     
  17. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    You don't have to be a conspiracy nut to think there might be another reason. There is honest debate over the factors driving all of this with no real consensus among the "experts."
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    I hate watching videos - what does it say?

    oh- my $.02 is that regulating speculators here will simply drive them to other markets anyway so what's the point? Whether they speculate on NYMerc or ICE or whatever it's still going to drive up the price.
     
  19. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    Most of the people trading now have no intent on taking delivery, they just bid up the price. Airlines, UPS, refiner's need crude; what choice do they have, but to take delivery. Its akin to guys buying 4 houses on lousy credit and trying to flip them. For a time they were making money cause people needed houses, but eventually the merry go round stops. I don't even know what the margins requirement is for futures, but if it is anything like housing was a few years ago we will see what happens.
     
  20. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    i completely give up. live in your own world. you don't want to learn a damn thing so i can't say anything or show you anything that you will even look at. jesus christ people who don't even try to learn a freaking thing really really irritate me.
     

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