Gary Payton dislikes everything about the NBA today

damn beat me to it, good one

 

This isnt news. Most folks including myself that have watched the NBA for years will tell you that the league has been pussified over time.

Rampant flopping, touch fouls, hand check fouls, no two arms on the back of post players, NO big men, liberal use of flagrant fouls, bench grounded to the bench during a fight...yada yada.

I just find it ironic that Payton goes on about how tough his generation was and played through all the contact, while singing praise of Chris Paul, who is one of the most distinguished floppers in the game today.

I cant remember the last guy that missed months due to injury directly because of flopping.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking.

 

the best part was when he forgot the 3rd PG's name….that young guy tony parker….hahaha

 

You guys generally prefer the clutch and grab, two-man basketball from back then? You'd rather watch League Pass in 2000-01 over today?

 

Yes and what I wouldn't pay for a league pass in the 90s.

Besides the points I made earlier in the thread, for me personally....

I hate flops and floppers. Its rampant today and IMO has ruined the game. I could name 2-3 floppers in the league a decade ago. Maybe one (karl Malone) 20 years ago. Now every team has 2-3 on it. Do you enjoy watching these floppers?

I love watching post players and big men play. No where to be found in today's game.

I hate the new offensive fouls rules. Players nowadays are just sliding in and flopping to get that offensive foul called. Most guys actually contested shots 20 years ago. Back then, it would have been blasphemous for centers trying to slide in and take a charge. Now, they are all doing it.

 

rule changes have killed the big man. they can't block shots anymore. just stand there with your hands up. don't jump. if you have to jump, make sure to leave your hands straight up rather than try to block a shot, or its a foul if there is any contact. on offense, don't try to back anyone down. that's a thing of the past. floppers killed that. better to face the basket.

that's just for the center. what about the PF? completely gone. can't have 2 post players in the game at the same time. zone defenses will kill it. one of them has to be able to hit the 3.

i see what kelly is saying though. today's game is a more up-tempo free flowing type of game. more aesthetic. i get it. but to accomplish that, they got rid of post play and defense. its style over substance.

the next steps would be:

1) widen the lane to make it easier to get exciting layups and dunks. of course this would force more bigs to play farther from the basket, but it's more fun to watch guys shooting or attacking off the dribble.

2) lower the amount of time you can play with your back to the basket from 5 seconds to 3. force the bigs to adjust to the wide lanes by taking away their post. now on the perimeter they will have to face up, dribble or shoot. its more fun to watch.

3) lower the shot clock from 24 to 18. no more thinking through a play, or resetting the offense. its boring. just attack off the dribble or shoot.

4) lastly, lower the half court time from 8 seconds to 5. force them to run up the floor rather than waste time walking. its boring. we might even see some successful full court trapping. that would be pretty exciting.

i suggest all of these sarcastically, of course. its what the nba would love. scores would be sky high, everyone is fast breaking, spreading the floor and shooting. it would be competitive all star games.

as an nba fan i like that the games are more mike d'antoni style than JVG style. but as a basketball fan, i liked watching smothering defenses, and real post players that paired brute force with great foot work. i like watching half court motion offenses where everyone is moving and most baskets come off assists due to superior execution rather than this iso drive and kick stuff that they seem to be promoting.

its the difference between a cupcake and an apple. they want it to be a cupcake, just aesthetic with no substance. it's not good for the game. games from the 80's and 90's were amazing. the late 90's to early 2000's i wouldn't want to rewatch. it was the exact opposite of right now. too slow, too defensive minded. you need a balance. and right now the scale is being tipped too much to the offense.

 

Our generation started that...

Notorious bunch:
Dennis Rodman
Bill Laimbeer
Karl Malone
John Stockton
Vlade Divac
Derek Fisher

 

dear god no

 

I think the best thing they could do is cut out two time outs for each team. Let the game flow more.

 

Wish something could be done about the drawing a charge foul. Nothing is more annoying then someone running in front of that stupid semi circle standing there for a 1/2 second and then falling backwards.

 

While I love that we won a title in 94, those games were hitch and go type games. I like what the idea of the rules changes is about, more continuity for the offense.

In the 90's I recall the grind it out game of the Cleveland Cavaliers where games would be in the 80's. The hand checking of the Knicks. And I won't even mention the Sonics. Hakeem got mauled every night.

That being said, yes that gives the players of that time the upper hand when you look at what they did in those days. But I do like the up and down game of today as well. Is flopping an issue, yes. But to say flopping has ruined the game, I will not go that far.

The game has changed in other ways, including becoming more international, this started in the 90's as well. A lot of the international players injected flopping into the game, beginning with Vlade and then other international players. Then of course the NBA players saw that it worked and adopted it.

Has the game changed? Yes. Do I like it less? No. It's just the constant of change. The same with Football and it's focus on safety in what was once a brutal sport. Even with Baseball, having to deal with PED's. I hear more of that stuff in baseball than I do day to day stuff.

If asked if I wanted to go back to players being mauled in the post and on the perimeter just to see someone get 2 points, no thanks I am fine where we are.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Yea, but CP3's one tough cookie. I'd love to see Payton in his prime play against current CP3. They'd go at it all game:grin:

 

That is exactly how I feel about it. I remember the NBA saying they wanted to speed the game up (example the clear path foul). If they didn't stop to blow the whistle on a charge, I see the game's tempo picking up. I think the charge is an obvious way for officials to control the game.

 

same can be said of the NFL, no? Don't ppl say the NFL is being "pussified" by rule changes.

The rule changes are one thing. Flopping is another.

I completely agree with most all NBA rule changes, but I HAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE flopping. But I don't let flopping destroy the game for me. I don't want to call everything bad just because flopping is now rampant.

You know me...I'm all about defense. And eradicating the *****ing most assinine [sic] rule ever invented -- "Illegal Defense" -- has improved the game tremendously...imso. It's like, "What the hell do you mean I have to shadow players without the ball...go flllk yourself."

That rule change in 2003?, by itself, completely made last decade better than the '90s for me, discounting we won twice. I guess I'm the only one. The Detroit win was HUGE for basketball.

 

Gotta agree with Gary.

It would be one thing if they just removed hand-checking & other methods of playing D from the modern game. It's another to remove them, encourage flopping by rewarding it, and give officials more influence over outcome each year.

It's pretty much admitted that stars aren't going to be officiated the same as others, big men aren't going to be officiated the same, entire teams aren't officiated the same as one another, etc.

 

Why does this not surprise me.

 

No, Gary is wrong because he mentions all that without saying they eradicated Illegal Defense, too.

Yes, it was wrong to remove hand-checking WHILE illegal defense existed. He's right about that. But he is only right about the timing of the rule changes. They should have all come at the same time.

the big three should have occurred at the same time: no hand-checking, no two hands on the back, but off setting that with no more illegal defense. Just play up, square.

bottomline: I completely advocate no hand-checking in a legal defense world. You can't allow hand-checking while also allowing all defenses of today. That's where Gary is wrong.