MManal, Doesn't the rules state that since the T-Pups are also over the limit that they have to take back no more than 115% + 100K of the salary that they gave up? If so how do we stay with in that range when we are taking back 5 million less than we are sending?
It's because the numbers are high enough. Minnesota can take back 115%+100K of KG's 28 mill. salary- they can take back up to 32.3 million. From MManal's numbers, Francis+Rice+Cato+EG adds up to 29.3 mill, easily fitting for Minnesota. From our perspective, we can take back 115%+100K of Rice's 10 mill, Cato's 7.3 mill, EG's 2.4 mill, then only half of Francis' 10 mill (5 mill). That adds up to 115%+100K of 24.3 mill, which comes to 28.045 million, which is just barely enough to squeeze in Garnett's 28 mill. It's close, but it works. And you could throw in another player, (up to 3 mill worth) to make it fit easier if you wanted. Also note, we'd gain a 1.3 mill trade exception from this hypothetic deal. That's a LOT of talent to be trading, but at the same time, the passing skills of Yao/KG may even make Divac and Webber look like Yinka Dare and Othella Harrington
Its simple....FRANCIS AND E GRIFF FOR KG AND TROY HUDSON its the only trade i can think of thats fair and helps both sides. and to you francis fans ITS WELL WORTH IT IF WE ARE GETTING KG. just think about kg and yao ming on the same team!!!! lineup... MING, cato KG, Mo taylor Posey, rice mobley, hawkins Hudson, mooch? this is the only way minesota will agree, We gotta give up francis.
There's something called a salary cap that prevents this horrible trade from getting off the ground. Minnesota can get much better than a wannabe PG and a PF who only shoots 3s on offense.
Another article on possible Timberwolves moves this summer. We'll know if Garnett is going to be moved or not by what Minnesota does with Brandon's contract. If they don't trade Brandon then I think Rice's contract will be the deciding factor if Garnett is traded to Houston. Wolves pondering what to do with Brandon Now that's it's clear to everyone that Terrell Brandon is going to retire, the Wolves have an interesting dilemma on their hand. Do they attempt to trade Brandon this summer to a team looking to clear cap space? Brandon's $11.1 million salary will mostly be paid by insurance and will come off the cap in February. Or do they keep him on the roster, get a $4.5 million disabled player exception from the league and try to add talent that way. Several teams looking for cap room, like the Heat, Hawks, Wizards and Raptors, might be willing to give away a decent player in return for some cap and luxury-tax relief. The Wizards are looking to move Jerry Stackhouse and could package him along with Jahidi White for Brandon's contract. That move would put the Wizards about $18 million under the cap for 2004. The Raptors would consider offering Antonio Davis. The Heat have been looking to move Eddie Jones. And the Hawks would probably give the Wolves their choice of Glenn Robinson or Theo Ratliff. But, according to the Minnesota Star Tribune, Wolves owner Glen Taylor is contemplating keeping Brandon, pocketing the savings when he comes off the books (removing Brandon's salary would put the Wolves below the luxury-tax threshold) and praying that Kevin Garnett doesn't hold it against him when it comes to start negotiating an extension. Our guess is that KG wouldn't be amused.
did yall see on sports sw last nite that garnett might go to the BULLS! i didnt hear who all was involved w/ the trade (eddie robinson was the only name i caught). it was at least 5 guys though and their 1st round pick. couldnt the rockets give them a better trade than the bulls?
I have wondered about some of these teams and the players mentioned. Although it is unlikely we will bring Garnett into the fold, as mentioned before, the only realistic way to do it would be to trade Steve Francis. And I don't know if Steve would be receptive to the idea at all. You could move Steve to a team where he'll be happy. I did wonder about Jerry Stackhouse. If he decides not to opt out, he could be moved to Minnesota. With Stackhouse, the Wiz would still have about 5 million bucks cap space. For example, STEVE FRANCIS + EDDIE GRIFFIN + TERRENCE MORRIS + MOOCHIE NORRIS to the Wizards. JERRY STACKHOUSE + KWAME BROWN + JERROD (sp?) JEFFRIES + GLEN RICE + KELVIN CATO to the Timberwolves. KEVIN GARNETT + MARC JACKSON to the Rockets. Steve and T-Mo go home to DC area and so don't really complain about being traded. Wiz become playoff team in the Leastern Conference. Minnesota fills out its roster with talented players (some have Midwest ties: Jeffries, Cato). We get Garnett, plus Marc J as backup center/PF. (Marc also being Cuttino buddy.) Well? *sigh* All right, all right. It's unlikely to happen at all. I do apologize. Summers are dull plodding for Rockets fans. But...doesn't it make some sense?
Rox, The Wizards discussion is actually a pretty solid idea. If Kevin McHale really does not want Steve and feels it would not be a good situation, the Wizards could be brought in to facilitate the deal. This ofcourse assumes that Kevin McHale is ok with getting Jerry Stackhouse and Kwame Brown type package instead of having Steve Francis. The Wizards could easily fit Francis's BYC as well b/c they have about 7-8 mil in cap room.
bigboy's proposal of Cat, EG, Rice, Mo is too little for KG. This proposal of Steve, EG, Rice, Cato is too much! You add an avg. SG for 1 mil or so and you have a reasonably competitive team right there! Looking at the price tag also exposes how over priced KG really is. We always said Rice and Cato and even Francis are overpaid and it takes their salaries plus EG's (== 3 1st picks) to match KG's !
This is not too much for KG. Just imagine Yao and KG playing together, unselfishly, everyone on the team gets high% shots, etc. Now imagine the offense we run now............feeling better
Its really simple... If you want KG you had better be ready to pay what is required. Its fine and all saying that KG holds all the cards and all this talk but simply look at the offer Chicago is capable of putting on the table. I dont think Kevin Garnett would for half a second turn down a chance to play in Chicago esp now that Jerry Krause is gone. The Bulls have enough young talent to really entice the T-Wolves. The deal being bandied about is Jay Williams, Tyson Chandler, Jalen Rose, Eddie Robinson, #7 pick in this draft. Although Williams and Chandler are still very much unproved, that is two guys that were top 3 overall selections. Plus, Jalen Rose is a veteran 20 PPG scorer. In addition, the Wolves get a lottery pick in this draft. Essentially, we're talking about 3 lottery picks plus a 20 PPG scorer. If I am the T-Wolves, I would MUCH rather move Garnett out of conference than put together quite possibly the best C-PF tandem in the history of basketball with Yao-KG. This is why the Rockets have to REALLY make it worth Minnesota's time to get a deal done. If the talent is equal, Minnesota would much rather trade KG out of conference. This is why Steve Francis has to be involved for the Rockets to have a shot. I believe in Steve's talent and feel he can be a very good player in the appropriate system, but I put winning before any kind of loyalties. Even if I am a player's biggest fan, I have no problem trading him to upgrade the team. Winning and championships are everything in my book, and KG is one of the rarest talents I have ever seen. Also, if you are Kevin Garnett, why would you block a trade to Chicago? Garnett gets to go back home and play in a conference where his team could be a contendor for the finals every yr. Despite losing this much talent, the Bulls would still have enough weapons with Garnett leading things to make it to the Finals from a weak Eastern Conference. Crawford, Marshall, Curry, Fizer, Garnett is a very solid core of players. The Bulls could attract some veterans with a very competitive team in place and make a serious run in the East.
With the Bulls being the FrontRunner we must compare what we could offer Minnesota more than the Bulls offer: Essentially its Garnett for: Jay Williams Jalen Rose Marcus Fizer Tyson Chandler #1 Pick vs. Steve Francis Eddie Griffin Glen Rice I personally think that Francis is Significantly better than Jay Williams and that Jalen would be redundant if they had Wally and Troy Hudson. Fizer is an undersized PF that just came off of knee surgury and Chandler is better (by not much in the east) than Griffin. I honestly think our package is much more feasible. And if needs be we could add Cato and take Marc Jackson + details. Marc Jackson would be a decent backup and can play C/PF. That #1 pick though will be rough to match. Would could add Cuttino Mobley for some of their garbage because of his salary as well. that would make it: Francis Cuttino Griffin Rice Cato for Garnett Hudson Marc Jackson plus some other throw-ins for Salary Purposes. That would give the T-Wolves a lineup of: Francis Cuttino Peeler Sczerbiak Rice Griffin Joe Smith Cato Nesterovic Versus with the Bulls Trade: Jay Williams Jalen Rose Szerbiak Rose Fizer Chandler Nesterovic Plus their #1 Pick. They have the sixth worst record in the league,but should they be propelled into the top three: LeBron Milicic Carmelo Anthony Then they might not even do the trade and it would be difficult to beat that from Houston's standpoint. So I really think we have the upper hand. That and Garnett stated he didn't like Chicago's management and what they did to the Bulls. He also stated he LOVED Rudy T and would swim across the ocean for him if I remember right. Though he will probably miss Francis, playing with Yao would do wonders for his game and his ability to get past the second round.
FD, Garnett said he didnt like Jerry Krause b/c he felt he ruined the Bulls. Jerry Krause is now gone which is why this rumor is gaining more steam. Also, if we throw in Cuttino as well and they add Hudson, that may be the little nudge Minnesota could require to move Francis to Houston. However, from the Rockets standpoint, your deep team is suddenly very thin except at the power positions. Essentially, you are left with Hudson, Posey, Nachbar, Morris, Moochie on the perimeter. Therefore, you better had better be able to maximize the value of your MCE b/c that perimeter group is very thin.
Jay Williams = Rice's Contract Tyson Chandler = EG Jalen Rose < Cat considering contracts Eddie Robinson < Cato #7 pick in this draft > Mo Taylor or 2 first round picks I think the players are comparable. I think the Wolves would prefer to trade outside the conference. (But, again) If you read my earlier posts, Chicago is probably the favorite to acquire Garnett.(family ties) However, Garnett decides where he is going. IF... IF...IF, Garnett decides he wants to come to Houston, he will be playing his home games here and we will not have to give up either one of the big two. (Unless, Steve wants to leave.) GARNETT WILL PROBABLY HAVE HOUSTON ON HIS SHORT LIST. IF HOUSTON IS ON GARNETT'S SHORT LIST THEN STEVE WILL BE ONE OF THE BIGGEST REASONS IF NOT THE REASON FOR HIM CHOOSING HOUSTON. In my opinion, the following is what will transpire if Garnett is to ever play for Houston: 1)Garnett decides that he wants to go somewhere else. 2)he comes up with a list of the possible teams. 2a)Houston is on the list for the following reasons in order No state taxes, Steve, Yao, Rudy, Houston's NBA season weather, golf courses Conclusion: No Steve; Houston is not on the list.
I would think that some, like Mooch would be completely redundant in an offense that would be run inside out by handlers like Yao and Garnett. Yes we would be very thin, but I would think that our perimiter players would not need to be as talented. We would simply need shooters and slashers. Penetration and creation would not be an issue. We have been shown to find talent in the CBA for just shooters and they would be cheap. With the MCE I think many players would want to play here and would take less to have a front court of Yao and Garnett who are both team players and great passers. Do you think Gary Payton would not consider taking less to play with those two? A lineup of FA (exception) maybe even McInnis or Chris Whitney who both have good jumpers needed in a passing KG/Yao offense FA/ Troy Hudson/ Mooch Posey / Troy Hudson Garnett Nachbar Morris MoTaylor Garnett Morris Yao Collier Garnett (against smaller teams) I think this team, though thin, would be a handful and make us contenders very soon.
I don't think Payton would come here because he is looking for a pay day. Besides, he could always go to the Lakers if it is not about the money.
As great as it would be to have Garnett in a rockets uniform, it is next to impossible. Garnett is the franchise player for the Timberwolves and they will want cheap talent and cap space flexibility for Garnett. Rice will be a no-brainer in the deal, so will the one if not two 1st rounders in 2004 & 2006 or 2005 & 2007, and Mo Taylor (because of the salary slot), as wll as Cato. But they will want a player that they can hang their proverbial hat on. None of the players above fit that profile. There is however a player that does, and he wears #11. The T-Wolves would want Yao Ming in the deal, if not all bets are off. I have no doubt that Houston would be on Garnett's short list, as he is a big fan of Rudy T. But just because he wants to come here doesn't mean the T-Wolves have to make the deal to Houston, they will be looking to improve there team and will go with the best deal offered. However, I do not believe that the Bulls rumored package is better than anyhting the Rockets can put together. A player that is attainable and a more realistic solution would be Elton Brand. He doesn't have the finesse of Garnett, nor the impact, but he is the quintessential blue-collar worker that the Rockets need to help Yao down low in the post and would be an excellent rebounder. As a plus Brand doesn't need many shots, most of his shots are off putbacks on offensive rebounds. At this point the Rockets need to make an acquisition that will solidify the team. It is my belief that Brand has the ability to do that.
FD, Gary Payton? I seriously doubt it. However, I am not opposed to your scenario; just saying the perimeter would lack depth. I would probably go for it b/c we could still get solid role players with the MCE and the vet min. Players of the caliber of Jon Barry, Steve Smith, Kenny Anderson, Tyronne Lue, maybe Reggie Miller could all be had for reasonable amounts. If you split the MCE between Jon Barry and Steve Smith, I'd be content going into next season with a perimeter lineup of Hudson, Barry, Posey, Nachbar, Smith, Hawkins, T-Mo, etc b/c the frontcourt would be legendary with Yao and KG. Mo Taylor would make one heck of a 6th man up front. Also, the Rockets would unload all of their big contracts aside from Mo Taylor and to a certain extent Moochie Norris. That actually is a huge plus; this team would gain some cap flexibility. Im assuming we just take the deal I proposed and tack on Mobley for Hudson (no Marc Jackson). Despite Garnett making 28 mil, the team would be right at the cap mark with a payroll of 42-43 mil or so. This means that essentially any pay cut Garnett takes would translate into cap room in 2004.
The decision where Garnett goes ultimately is up to the Wolves, NOT Garnett. If I were the T-Wolves I'd probably go with the Bulls trade over the Rockets. The Chicago trade would be more beneficial to the Wolves long-term and the Houston one discussed would be more beneficial short-term. While Steve has shown he's good enough to carry a team to playoff contention, he's hasn't been able to do anything more. So the Houston trade would essentially be replacing a team that's perennial 1st round fodder to being perennial 9th place teams with low lottery picks. The Chicago trade makes the Wolves a whole lot worse, but at least they'll end up with a very high lottery pick. Then they can build around the player they draft, Chandler, J. Williams, and whoever they draft with the Bulls lottery pick this draft. The way I see it, it's better to hit rock bottom and build up to title contention than to be stuck in mediocrity forever. If there's one thing Minnesota doesn't want, it stagnation.
