1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

GARM FAQs: John Lucas III and Steve Novak Signing Edition

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by m_cable, Jul 30, 2006.

  1. Van Gundier

    Van Gundier Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. An interesting thing about JL3 and Novak is that they are both sons of basketball coaches. Maybe that and their college experience with coaches Crean (a Van Gundy friend, I heard) and Sutton will help them learn the system and adjust to Van Gundy's demanding personality better than the average young player.

    2. I think Battier has more tricks in his bag to make opposing PF uncomfortable than the spot up 3, but we'll see about that. Also, even the ability to shoot the spot up 3 means the opposing PF would be out of position to help on Yao and rebounding the ball for a lot of positions, and that's a pretty significant thing.

    I agree, though, a guy in constant motion running off screens is more of a pest than a spot up shooter.

    3. Novak will never have the physique of Superman, but does he really need to? I think a 22 year old athelete can easily add 15 or so lbs to his body without slowing himself down much (unless we are talking the "prison buff" muscle gain where it's all upper body).

    If he hits 230 instead of 216, he'd probably be OK as a PF. Officially, Odom is 6'10'' 230, Juwan Howard is 6'9'' 230, S.Swift is 6'9'' 230, Rasheed Wallace is 6'11 230...maybe they are a little heavier now, but all 4 of these guys have played PF at or around that weight.

    Novak's not gonna be great at D, but I think the team can find 15-20 minutes a game for him of acceptable defensive matchups where his defense won't be exploited enough to hurt the team. After all, Scott Padgett was crap on D at any weight and any position, and he managed to help the team for 15-20 mpg for a couple of years.
     
  2. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2002
    Messages:
    17,501
    Likes Received:
    2,889
    May be? Indoubitedly. However, your 'series' has been renewed and retains Bird Rights.

    IMO - Lil Luke will be the equivalent of a free 1st round pick by next ('07-'08) season. His lineage will be as helpful as his quickness.

    Novak, I fear, will be Korver, at best. Which is ok-sorta. In other words, good for spot minutes in a spot up (type) roll.
     
  3. m_cable

    m_cable Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2002
    Messages:
    9,455
    Likes Received:
    73
    The difference is that all of them have a lot more length and athleticsm than Novak. Steve checked into the combine with very short arms for his height, and I think it's a pretty safe bet that he doesn't have the quickness or hops to compare with Odom, Stro, and Rasheed. And even Juwan looks heftier than that 230 lb figure (could be an old measurement).

    Playing PF, length and athleticism compensates for height and mass, and vice versa. Right now, Novak is undersized, has short arms, low mass, pitiful strength, and questionable athleticism. It's unrealistic to expect him to improve those deficiencies enough to play PF.

    And really even 15 lbs of muscle might be a bit of a stretch right now. He's got a pretty slim frame, and I'd be surprised if he wasn't wolfing down protein shakes and trying to bulk up for the pre-draft combine at that. If 216 lbs was all he could put on so far, I'm dubious about how high his ceiling is going to be in the future. Especially if he starts playing 82 games a year.

    Pre-draft measurements for reference:
    Pre-draft height and weight and wingspan
    Pre-draft athletic testing
     
  4. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,010
    Likes Received:
    15,477
    Korver is a legit NBA player, even if he is limited. I'd be quite pleased if we got that much out of our second round pick.
     
  5. Van Gundier

    Van Gundier Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Point taken as to his limitations, but actually, I'd be suprised if he was wolfing down Pat Robertson's 2000 lb leg press protein shakes. There isn't much time between the end of the NCAA season and when all the predraft workouts start. Gaining weight too quickly tends to mess up a player's jump shot and since the J is his calling card, I doubt he'd risk messing with that just to tip the scale 10-15 lbs heavier.

    I think usually players wait until their spot for next year is safe before they try to play with weight gain. For example, Tyrus Thomas (another guy projected as a P-- certainly Bulls think so since they already have Deng and Nocioni at SF) tipped the scale at 217 lbs, actually lighter than his official weight according to LSU.

    It's much safer to do it after you got drafted and have your contract inked so now you have 3-4 months before the season to gain weight and allow your body to adjust to the added strength so you don't lose your shot.
     
  6. seth66

    seth66 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0

    i luv it!!! but yao is too slow and no rebounder in this lineup... :eek:
     
  7. pryuen

    pryuen Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2003
    Messages:
    4,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    You seemed to dislike Yao so much that you overlooked the fact that Yao Ming can complete a 4 session of 5-peat to-and-fro spirnt between the baseline under 65 seconds, the yard-stick standards set for forwards by Jeff Van Gundy.

    And no rebounds ?? He has been the top rebounder in this team ever since joining.
     
  8. bobmc

    bobmc Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks m_cable for the amusing and informative (if rather schizophrenic) post.

    I have a question however (for anyone):

    How do team options work ? i.e I understand that the team can extend the contract for the additional year, but is this at the same salary or would a new salary have to be negotiated ? What options does a player have in this regard ? Must they accept the old salary or can they seek an increase ?
     
  9. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2000
    Messages:
    8,764
    Likes Received:
    11
    Patricia Bender has Novak's as a 2 year min deal with a team option on year 2. This is how the contract should be, given the Rockets maximum options, and not cutting into the MLE. I am guessing we have more like 2.8 milof the MLE left.

    JL3 appears to be a 3 year deal, details unknown. I would guess starting salary at 750K with 10.5% raises. I really hope we have a team option on year 3, but I don't know.

    Can anyone confirm?
     
  10. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2002
    Messages:
    17,501
    Likes Received:
    2,889
    Whether 2 or 3 year (I tho't CD said three) there's enough to sign Wright or another latter rotation guy if they feel the want and need (based on trade options/timing etc).
     
  11. pryuen

    pryuen Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2003
    Messages:
    4,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not sure where the sina.com get the source from.

    http://sports.sina.com.cn/k/2006-07-30/09002367819.shtml

    But from the above report

    1. It is a 3-year contract.
    2. Originally, the Rockets wants to sign a 2-year deal; but given 6 other teams interested in JL III, it turns out to be a 3-year deal.
    3. The MLE has been used up according to this article (as portion of the MLE had already been used for V Spanoulis and Steve Novak)
    But I seriously doubt about what the article said about JLIII's Year 1 salary (US$ 3M) which is way too high, right ??
     
  12. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2002
    Messages:
    17,501
    Likes Received:
    2,889
    Way too. Right.
     
  13. Omer

    Omer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Messages:
    3,933
    Likes Received:
    56
    I love how you use the GARM FAQ's as an excuse to publicize your conversations with yourself.
     
  14. Relativist

    Relativist Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2000
    Messages:
    3,517
    Likes Received:
    241
    Clearly, you don't remember MacBeth. This was pretty long, but MacBeth's posts often consisted of huge paragraphs, one after another.

    Good job, cable. Fun read.
     
  15. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    56,375
    Likes Received:
    48,312
    Macbeth shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread.


    Fine job interesting read ~ we need more quality in the GARM.
     
  16. m_cable

    m_cable Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2002
    Messages:
    9,455
    Likes Received:
    73
    It's a specific salary amount that's already been set. Contracts are only allowed certain maximum raises, so usually the team and player goes for the max raise (8% or 10.5% depending on what kind of exception is used to sign a player), so there's really not a whole lot of wiggle room.

    For example, if JL3 has a starting salary at 800K with maximum raises of 8%, his yearly salary will be as follows:

    Year 1: 800K
    Year 2: 864K
    Year 3: 928K

    That's the most money he can get off that starting salary, and probably what gets accepted by both sides.
     
  17. m_cable

    m_cable Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2002
    Messages:
    9,455
    Likes Received:
    73
    It's hard to be sure. The Rockets are often very tight-lipped about their deals and don't leak a whole lot of specific figures. Like I don't think that we figured out definitively if Charlie Ward had all three years fully guaranteed, or likewise with Sura having a full four years on his deal, or if there were team options or partially guaranteed years involved. And to this day, I've never seen a source that said how much Deke is making that wasn't pure guesswork. And V-span's contract is in still in a "between 5-6 million" never-never-land.

    But first off I'm pretty sure that Lucas can only have 8% raises, because they used the MLE. I think that the 10.5% figure only applies to using the Early Bird or Full Bird to re-sign your own free agents.

    As for Novak, I'm going by the inital report from Berman on Fox that said:

    Two years with an option on the third

    Berman seems to be the most plugged in media player in Houston where the Rox are concerned, so that's where my suspicions land on this point.
     
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    124,157
    Likes Received:
    33,032
    Did Larry Bird have the athleticism or hops? I forget?????

    HEART, brains & Skill are way more important than athleticism.

    DD
     
  19. m_cable

    m_cable Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2002
    Messages:
    9,455
    Likes Received:
    73
    I'm not talking about whether Novak can hack it in the league. I'm addressing whether he can defend the PF position. And last I checked, Bird was a pure SF and didn't spend a whole lot of time checking 4's. That duty went to Mchale who sported an enormous wingspan, which served him very well on defense (and offense for that matter).
     
  20. bobmc

    bobmc Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0

    Thanks for the explanation m_cable. So does this mean that the Rockets will have the right of first refusal at the year 3 salary or is it a given that JL3 would have to accept this salary ? In other words, does JL3 have an option of testing the market if he feels his market value is higher. I guess i'm just having trouble understanding what the true value of a team option is. What would be the downside of not having the team option in place ? Sorry for all the questions but I am really trying to understand this.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now