Gang-Raped Victim in Saudi Arabia gets 90 Lashes, Some Rapists get 10 Months

Oh mine, you still don't get it. Why do you insist that the girl has committed a crime? Why do you insist that the girl has jumped into the car voluntarily? Were you one of the rapists there so you saw everything and so sure about it? At least 20 people have pointed out that the girl in all likelihood could have been forced by the rapists into the car. Why do you refuse to give the benefits of doubt to the victim who had been gangraped by 7 men? Or you are really so stupid that you are not able to grasp it? Geeze, I knew you were stupid but I didn't know you are this stupid.

 

i am always willing to consider other perspectives. i considered the perspective of the saudi justice system and found it in this case to be wrong. as i said, i am open minded but i have no tolerance for what is happening to that woman.

what exactly am i being closed minded about? that i think it is wrong that this woman is getting 90 lashes for getting into a car? if that makes me close minded than so be it. are you not being close minded with your views, especially when you claim the rape victim is lying and you believe the rapists? what is wrong with you?

again, you are a troll who admits you take positions you dont agree with just to argue with people. you admit you will lie about yourself to make an argument. you have zero credibility.

 

this isnt a debate class college-boy. there is nothing wrong with stirring the pot, but you show a very high level of dishonesty with your posting style. why should anyone believe anything you say on here? you admit you are a liar.

not whining at all. i think its hilarious that you have stated multiple times in this very thread that you are done posting here, yet keep coming back. like i said, either stop being such a cry-baby about it or follow-thru with your "threat" and dont post here anymore. it just makes you look foolish and narcissistic.

 

You are moving your goalposts. This is what you said initially.

You bought into the idea that just because it is their law, that makes it alright, and then you claimed that the woman was wrong for protesting such this law. She should protest it. It is horrific.

 

keep telling yourself that my closed-minded whatever it is you are....

 

No - I said she was wrong for protesting the punishment, not the law.

But I guess you've missed the whole point.

 

I find it amusing how you turn this into a personal thing because you can't debate on facts. I'm sorry you are so fragile. Toughen up. Think independently of your ego - free yourself of your prison man!

By the way, you're making us both look bad. Or rather, since you are superior to me, you're dragging yourself down man. No class huh? Not surprised.

 

1) how am i making this "a personal thing"?

2) what "facts" am i unable to debate?

 

You are unable to discuss the idea that there may be an underlying racism or culturalism in people's condemnation of Saudi culture.

Instead, you are attacking me - my credibility, calling me a liar, and many other names. That's known as "personal attacks". Personal attacks stem from a "personal issue".

As a mattar of fact, it shows that you have a personal attachment to our debate. Really - it's flattering.

The time you invest in repeating yourself, "You're a liar" so on and so forth. Going through all my posts to show every line where I say I'm going to leave...

Why go through all that trouble????? For someone who has no credibility?

Because there's something in you that requires you to. Frankly, i'm really fascinated by it. What motivates you? To "warn" other people about me - make sure they see the same truth? Because they can't judge for themselves perhaps? Are you a savior of sorts? Or does this give you something? Satisfaction? Fullfillment? Reaffirmation?

So what's the scoop? What's with the personal attacks?

You know, politicians often use this tactic to avoid debating especially on losing issues. Their incentive is to persuade people they are the better choice - the one to vote for - "win" the "debate" so to speak. If you can't win on logic, then go on the attack.

What's interesting is that once they have one, usually they stop the attacks - well, except for the likes of CHeney.

 

She's not wrong for protesting either though. For you to believe that she should just accept 90 lashes for entering a car with a man, especially if it was coerced via blackmail, is the definition of sickness.

 

The question of whether entering a car with a strange man as a crime is certainly debateable. Does it serve some purpose? Does it cut down on crime or even rapes? Hmmmm. What would happen if it was against the law for an adult to take a strange child in a car? Would that lower the number of kidnappings? I don't know.

But if you want to debate whether the law is just or not - that's fine. I don't think it's a just law. But that's not the point i'm trying to make.

The point is this - 90 lashes as a punishment? What about the death penalty? Is the death penalty a just punishment? Some might call that sick.

IF so many people can support the death penalty and say it's not sick....then why not 90 lashes?

I'm only asking questions. If you want to say I am sick...go for it. Maybe it makes you feel better inside? Then say it again - I'm all for you making you feel good about yourself

 

I'm sorry NewYorker you've long since stopped debating the issue and are now are now just caught up in petulance.

You are certainly welcome to think I'm being arrogant and pedantic, and I admit I'm prone to that, but I'm trying to offer you advice. You wonder why people don't like you but have you considered it has to do with your style of debate which strikes me as dishonest, defensive and at times childish. Jomama, myself and others have challenged your argument, and yes in debate you challenge, by examining other people's words and pointing out contradictions. That isn't personal in terms of saying something like "your momma is a ho" but is part of the record of the debate.

I think you mentioned somewhere that you were on a debate team. Well so was I and I can tell you comments made in the process of the debate are absolutely fair game.

The other thing is is that I think you inherently have no respect for the rest of the posters and now seem to get riled that they aren't treating you with respect. What you miss is that honest disagreement can still be expressed with respect. No one, and I mean no one, agrees with each other on everything but for the majority of us still get along. You can still play devils advocate, bring up controversial issues, challenge peoples thinking and be respectful. You might not think that way but IMO that's more the loss.

 

NewYorker insisted that the girl has committed a crime because he assumed that she voluntarily jump into the car to hang out with the rapists.

With the same twisted logic, NewYorker also insists that all rape victims have committed crimes because he assumes that all the rape victims have seduced the rapists before the rapes.

Can you all see how stupid is NewYorker the moron now?

 

Anyone with a brain can see how r****ded and dumb you are in this thread. But I know for sure that you will just keep posting garbage. Like I have said before, your little man syndrome causes you to do everything and anything in order not to lose a dabate on the internet. All you care is to be the one who makes the last post in the thread so you can fool yourself that you have won the debate. I feel sorry for a liar like you who are not even true to yourself.

Hey NewYorker, can you be a man for just once and answer me this question: Why are you so sure that the girl has voluntarily jumped into the car to hang out with the rapists? Come on, be a man. Answer this question.

 

What kind of crappy debate team was it? I didn't know a debate team would train its members to lie, sensationalize and exaggerate in order not to lose a debate.

 

But you know, I'd rather be hated and inspire what I've seen from people than anything else. Being liked isn't my goal here (I thought this much was obvious) - it is to be hated, and to see how people react once a hated person debates. Do they overcome their bias (justified or not) or do they re-evaluate?

Can you state something controversial and still be taken on the merits of what is being said? Can people separate their feelngs about something or someone and see a larger picture inspite of their emotions.

The traditional answer is no. I see confirmation of that here. Look, the question was never about respect....it's about people and how they take in information and make decisions. What factors influence that? What controls them? How to their emotional feelings affect their reactions? That's what's always intrigued me.

Now, we both know that there's not really much left to do on D&D. I popped into this thread because it was so controversial that I couldn't resist. I admit it. But look at all the things I've defended.

A kid sticking a plastic pipe up another guys ass not being a hate crime
A racist comment from a Virginia governer
Draconian Islamic law

and I have attacked

Chinese policy at every turn
Environmentalism
Liberals
Muslims as a community not doing enough to fight terrorism.

When I first came here - I actually espoused my true beliefs. Moderate values, anti-nazism (I am stilla gainst Nazis walking through a black neighborhood), and a whole slew of other things.

At some point, I decided to change course - some out of irreverence, but also to see something - even about myself. Do our beliefs and emotional states really affect how we take in information? Are we biased? Can we seperate the message from the messenger?

The answer is no.

Thanks for helping me understand that. Really - I consider all of you to be a teacher. Those who have responded and taken the time to deconstruct and prove me wrong, even personally attack me - I appreciate your time.

As for hiding my race, it wasn't because I wasn't proud of it. It's because I am. I knew I was doing was going to cause a lot of trouble, and I didn't want to damage people's perceptions of Indians - as we already suffer a lot of racism. You see, I understand that I have to represent my race well in real life - not jsut for myself, but for all Indians. And I pulled back because I didn't want people to formulate a bad opinion of Indians.

Actually - the one thing that I've really been impressed with on this board - I have to say, it that people ARE NOT racists here. As a matter of fact, you guys are really tolerant in that category....I underestimated people here. There's a lot of open-minded thinking - I just wanted to push the limits of that. If anything, if you all were a bunch of closed-minded fools, I would have been gone long ago.

 

Seems that the story as reported was spun a little to provoke the reactions a bit:

Here's another version - which tells that the man she met in the car was a friend and not involved in the rape. He was kidnapped as well - and he too received 90 lashes. Also the prison terms was not only 10 months as the Fox article reported.

Amazing what happens when you look at the same story from a different source....of course, I don't think anyone will change their mind - but still...you see, there's a point in questioning what you are told and not blindly accepting it. It's important to play devil's advocate - not for any purpose but to make sure you aren't being manipulated.

There was a secondary darker purpose in the way the Fox article was written. Does anyone see that?

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1162378314145&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

 

A lot of debaters become future lawyers and politicians..... just something to keep in mind.

 

and pr spokemen / marketers