Gang-Raped Victim in Saudi Arabia gets 90 Lashes, Some Rapists get 10 Months

I think you're missing the point. I didn't say that criticism of this incident is PC. I said that your response is PC. Your response is that we should respect their culture and laws even if they are markedly different. THAT is the definition of PC.

And as a minority, I am not offended by this criticism at all. No one's saying that the people of Saudi Arabia are inferior to us. They're criticizing specific laws in this country which isn't anything new. Yes, I find this LAW to be ridiculous and insulting.

So let me pose something to you, would you have been against all the sanctions levied by international organizations against the apartheid regime in South Africa? Or should we just have respected their institutional practices?

 

it does remind me of that case w/ the american kid in singapore. even though the punishment is extreme, in that case he was vandalizing others property. causing harm to others. in the case of the girl, she wasnt hurting anyone else by getting into a car w/ another man.

not trying to say caning is justified for vandalism, but what that kid did had a real and tangible negative effect on others, unlike the girl in saudi arabia.

 

So, you "don't care about language," and the entire post is you carrying on about language. Typical.



D&D. Words.

 

There's two related issues here. The first is regarding the law itself that it is a crime punishable by being lashed for being alone with an unrelated person of the same gender. That alone most posters feel is barbaric. The second issue is the relationship between the events. Yes they are two different crimes committed by different people but the sequence of events matters. While the person wasn't blackmailed by the ones who committed rapes, and it sounds like the even the blackmailer was raped himself, the events though were related. The woman obviously made some bad decisions and as such ended up in a situation where she was brutally raped, we have no idea if the blackmailer had any inkling that such might happen but as such that action precipated a chain of events that under many legal systems would be taken in consideration regarding sentencing.

Thanks. Appreciate it. Disagree with me as much as you want. As I've said before the D & D would be pretty boring if we didn't disagree.

Was replying in general.

 

Hey NewYorker, many of us in this thread condemned the Saudi laws. But I have yet to see one single post which remotely implied that we are superior to the Saudi people. Stop putting words in other people's mouths in order not to lose a debate, NewYorker. Is that what you learned in your crappy debate team before? Your tactic is lame and getting old.

According to NewYorker, anyone who condemns the unreasonable and unfair (to the females) Saudi laws is also one who looks down upon the Saudi people. According to NewYorker, whoever criticizes the backward legal system in Saudi Arabia is also a racist who thinks he is superior to the Saudi people. Hello NewYorker, I have seen you say things 100 times more racist than that on this board here before. Do you need me to quote them for you?

 

Why bother, if he's capable of putting words in other people's mouths, I'm quite certain he can take them out of his own.

 

I never defended the lashings. All I am commenting on was this stupid post

 

PC is about censoring speech or ideas. I'm 100% opposed to that. Those who are unwilling to consider that Saudia culture should be respected are actually the PC ones. THey are being intolerant of open-mindedness. The same way everyone accused George Allen as a racist based on one word he uttered. That's PC - and yet you call me PC for trying to question???? No, you are just using labels to attack to server your interest - I am well able to see through it.

In the Macaca thread, the PC-police called George Allen a racist without any examination. They just jump to conclusions. If' it's 50% likely - then that's enough to judge someone and destroy a political career - even of a man who had done more for Indians by far than those who called him racist.

What angered me about the maccaca thing - was here was this senator - a guy who was actively enaged in the Indian American community - being called a racist by people who didn't give two craps about Indian Americans.

That's PC in ernest.

Now - you have a woman who violated the law of the land - that is applied to all. Yet you compare that to apartied - where discimination ran rampant.

How is that equal? If a law is applied to all people - then it's not discriminatory. But appartied wasn't that - there's no comparison.

I'd rather live in a land where I'd get 90 lashes for getting in the car with a woman then live in a land where I got a $10 fine for sitting in a white man's seat.

No doubt about that. Hey - but I guess you'd rather be discriminated against?

And calling people backwards, barbarians, and living in the stone age (all that have occured in this thread) is implicitly calling them inferior. Otherwise, you may have a warped definition of inferior.

Frankly, I'm totally shocked by your post here. As a minority - I'd think you'd realize what has been going on here. PC? Opposing jingoism and lies is not PC. Destroying people out of fear is.

 

And there in lies the difference between being enlighted and being closed-minded/PC.

it is an extremely law - but that doesn't mean you judge a whole people as living in the stone age of being barbaric.

That's just cruel stereotyping. No wonder aldequi is so upset.

 

Yeah, but that approach is just going to make them hardened in their positions. As painful as it is to have people who don't understand or know a lot about your culture judge it, you can't changed their minds with force.

I'm not sure what will change their minds - but hey, that's part of the experiment we're all here for.

 

It seems like people are backing off the whole "we are superior" line of thinking. That's a positive at least.

Anyway, like I said, it's one thing to rip laws or policies apart, it's another to judge an entire nation of millions of people as inferior. That's borderline Adolph / Stalin / WWII Japanese / Most of western civ over Africa and Asia.

As soon as people start placing themselves above "camel-herders" as more civilized - the door to jingoism and genoicide has been opened.

I really hope you guys reconsider putting down other cultures to make you feel better about yourself. There's a potential for devatising effects.

I never supported a woman getting lashes for getting the car - but that wasn't the point - no it's much bigger....but I suspect is not seen.

 

Hey NewYorker, I know I have been harsh on you. So I will try to be conciliatory in this post. First of all, no one has ever said or implied that we are superior to the Saudi people in this thread, except you. No one in this debate has ever said anything racist on this board before, except you. And lastly, no one is backing off here, except you. Why? This is the proof:

Anyway, to claim that people are backing off just because they deny they have said or done something is moronic. I hope you are smart enough to understand it. From your last post, I can see you are now desperately looking for a ladder to climb out of the hole that you have digged for yourself in this debate. Let me give us a piece of advice here, New Yorker. What about using this chance to show everyone of us just for once that you are man enough to concede the debate? What about showing us that you have the courage to admit that you have been wrong? Believe it or not, NewYorker, this is your chance to make good with a lot of people here. Don't waste it.

 

The law clearly discriminates against women.

 

How so if the man who got in the car got 90 lashes as well?

There's so many incorrect assumptions being spread across this thread...of course, at the end, everyone will say "No one claimed this laws were discriminatory".

That's ok, I suppose it's more important to get people to see the truth and admiting they are wrong actually doesn't mean that much.

 

I will donate the first $20 to help buy New Yorker a one way ticket to Saudi Arabia, where he can live under the laws he so dearly loves.

Who is with me?

DD

 

I don't mind disagreeing with people, and arguing, but for the love God quit acting like an arrogant so-in-so.

Stop pretending like you are teaching us all a valuable lesson that none of us saw before you took your enlightened socrates-like questioning, and challenging our small-minded way of thinking.

It is very insulting.

 

Please stop judging and condemning Adolph / Stalin / WWII Japanese / Most of western civ over Africa and Asia. You might upset somebody.

 

Ummm - that's your ego talking - I have no idea why you would get so defensive about me asking questions and trying to shift people's opinions. That's the whole point of this thread isn't it? To change people's minds?

I'm not trying to teach anyone anything - just bringing a different persecptive to the table. A few will appreciate that, but most of you will not be able to tolerate it - I know that.

 

My ego?

This post only backs up your arrogant posting style. Some other people are able to ask questions, post, and engender real discussion without pretending to be such grand insightful questioners that "a select few" will appreciate the gifts being given by their posts, while the masses just aren't ready for such a "radical" way of looking at things.

Sorry to sidetrack the thread like this, and I will try not to say too much more about it, but I just couldn't take the arrogance, and your attitude like you are doing us all a favor by raising such deep thought provoking questions.

 

Didn't he say he will stop posting in D&D? or is that too much to expect him to keep his words?